To train up a child
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26-11-2013, 08:42 AM
RE: To train up a child
(26-11-2013 08:35 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(26-11-2013 08:28 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I'm interested in where the samplings are not the general population--which population is in large plurality or a majority running off into anger, stress, alcohol and narcotics. 25% (?) of children are also on ADHD medication, etc. - spanking could solve some issues for children - AND their parents! Some of the parents in those research samples should be spanked, and I imagine you agree!

Come on PJ, you have to be able to do better than just asserting "spanking could solve some issues for children" and pulling random statistics out of your ass... Drinking Beverage

EK:

*the current studies are absorbing the normal statistical sample, which includes angry, rotten parents

*I have what is admittedly anecdotal evidence but I know my kids and dozens of others very closely who grew with mine in community. My father and father-in-law were teachers and I've watched the schools go off the deep end in recent years as well.

*These things DO work. I've offered to appear on camera to discuss more and perhaps have a child come speak to you as well.
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26-11-2013, 08:48 AM
RE: To train up a child
(26-11-2013 08:42 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  *These things DO work. I've offered to appear on camera to discuss more and perhaps have a child come speak to you as well.

All you need to do PJ is to video tape each "training" session and keep them to show your kids when they are older.
Now think about that, are you going to be proud of what's on that video ?

What is it going to look like when one of your kids uploads a spank session to youtube.
will you be embarrassed or arrested ?

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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26-11-2013, 08:49 AM (This post was last modified: 27-11-2013 08:03 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: To train up a child
(26-11-2013 08:34 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  America is a terrific place where there is currently a lot of sin and evil. The correlation between spanking in this country and Chrisitianity is logical, and my missionary friends in Europe are astonished at Europe's increasing secularization even as it gets overwhelmed by Islam, narcotics abuse, legal prostitution, etc.


Yeah, funny how your supposed 'friends in Europe' are as sadly ignorant as you (assuming you're not just making them up).

Countries with legalized prostitution in Europe have lower rates of sexual assault, STD's, teen pregnancy, and abortion than the United States. The ones with legalized recreational drug use have far less drug related crime, and almost nobody in jail for drug offenses. They treat severe drug addiction as a medical problem, not a criminal one; and it works. The United States has more people in prison as a percentage of population than any country in the word, far outstripping Russia and China combined. Not only that, but the majority of people in prison are there for non-violent drug offenses; we simply have more people in jail cause they were caught with a blunt than we know what to do with. Many European country's deference to their rising Islam populations is a problem, but it's not one you can attempt to blame on their secularism. If Islam is getting preferential treatment or special exemptions (like being allowed to practice Sharia Law), then the countries clearly aren't being secular enough. We allow corporal punishment, and yet have far worse problems with violent crimes and assaults; and they have the highest rates in the more ignorant and conservative states of the Bible Belt. Spare the rod indeed. Using violence as a means of enforcing behavior only encourages the use of more violence.

Once again PJ, you are about as purposely delusional as you can be. Go away troll.

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26-11-2013, 08:52 AM
RE: To train up a child
Seriously PraiseJesus - as many posts made in this thread and ideas/suggestions/observations offered -- you **still** advocate spanking?
Really?

Most people when faced by incredible education and sound judgement will respond with: "Wow.... never thought of it that way = Ok. Maybe I was wrong to spank."

Course that requires rational thinking. And you Rationalize your thinking.
Psssst -- those two are NOT the same thing. Just sayin

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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26-11-2013, 09:58 AM
RE: To train up a child
I'm really tired of your semantics game. You didn't spank them with your open hand - you spanked them with a wooden spoon. You still struck them.

That's like saying, your honor, I didn't punch her with a closed fist, I backhanded her across the face!! Therefore, it wasn't an act of violence. Case closed!! Domestic abuse/assault charges dropped!!

What difference does it make *what* you hit them with?! You hit them. Period.

I don't believe you that it wasn't out of anger or frustration. All hitting is out of some form of frustration. Even if you do it with an even tone.

It's almost like after a thorough spanking, you calmly tell them, "there now. That wasn't so bad, was it? Daddy didn't hit you out of anger..."

It's gas lighting. A form of abuse in itself that you would justify ANY act of violence against your children when a simple time out or other discipline methods would have sufficed. You started out with spanking or flicking...you didn't try other methods first.

I freely admit that I once held that spanking was ok. I was spanked. I feel like I turned out ok. What other way did I know of?

Life is just a gamble. We don't know, due to the complexities of human relationships, just what will happen. The best we can ever do is take an educated guess as to which table to lay our chips on.

Now after reading the overwhelming evidence that chances of having negative effects are far greater than the chance of success, I have officially removed my chips from that table. It's not worth the gamble for me.

Doing something out of tradition is rather short sighted and stupid. In fact, it crowds out any room for growth, and innovation. Doctors used to bleed patients with fevers as a cure. Should they continue to do that because it was done in the past and sometimes had favorable results? Imagine what medicine would look like today if we always stuck with tradition?

I'm really shocked that you embrace changes of culture from the bible in other aspects of your life but not this? You no longer buy and sell women like stocks, or advocate the countless other atrocities contained within the text. Why not this too?

Since you think that god is responsible for everything. And therefore also responsible for human advancement, isn't ignoring the information "god" produced as grievance of a sin as letting your child die of a treatable medical condition because it was once tradition to pray away disease?

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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26-11-2013, 10:06 AM
RE: To train up a child
I used to believe in spanking, I was indoctrinated to think it was what "Good" parents did.
And I even thought it some how made me a tougher person. It was all Bullshit.I smacked my daughters leg and had flashback's of my own abuse. all most threw up, 16 years later i still feel like a scum bag.

My Daughters are kind, caring, have great empathy for others, and don't have any subconscious fear of me.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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26-11-2013, 12:02 PM
RE: To train up a child
(26-11-2013 10:06 AM)sporehux Wrote:  I used to believe in spanking, I was indoctrinated to think it was what "Good" parents did.

It's this misconception that PJ has.
He equates spanked and "broken willed" children with legally abiding, polite adults.

IMHO all children need are parents whom take an active interest in them. The children whom grow up to be "off the rails" are often the ones whose parents paid little attention to, or too much (in the case of abuse). But parents who actively go out in search for parenting books, spend the time to implement them already are the ones with an active interest. They are not likely to lock the kids in the car in the car park while they spend all day either at the pub or at the casino.

A decent study would be to compare children as they grow through to adults where their parents subscribed to different parental advise.
Maybe those that used "Politically Incorrect Parenting" by Nigel Latta vs those that used "to train up a child"
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26-11-2013, 12:29 PM
RE: To train up a child
(26-11-2013 08:09 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(25-11-2013 05:31 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  While a slap on the butt won't hurt anyone, I think that's excessive. To the point of CPS excessive.

I understand your concern. I do not think it's unreasonable. Having "been there" I can tell you that excessive would be a different thing entirely.

GREAT -- we have the assurance of the ABUSER that the ABUSE is "not excessive". REAL convincing. Rolleyes

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26-11-2013, 01:24 PM
RE: To train up a child
How is this thread still going on? We all know PJ's position even with the day to day variation. We also know that his authority comes from (1) a highly suspect book written a couple thousand years ago and (2) a book that advocates hitting children with PVC pipe. Oh, there's a third- he assures us it is ok.

This guy represents the caveman of our society. He won't change, has no desire to change and his statements of "I'm here to learn" have been proven not to be genuine.
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26-11-2013, 01:43 PM
RE: To train up a child
(26-11-2013 08:15 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(25-11-2013 06:20 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Hitting(spanking) a child with a PVC pipe or a wooden spoon is illegal where I live. There is no reason in your argument, love.

I mentioned the legality because I'm exhausted on this single thread by threats. I've graciously offered to appear on camera to talk about this with TTA members and I get back "I'm reporting you, you !@#$%^&" and etc.

Gay marriage is legal in states, which does not imply it's moral correctness. If spanking is illegal in some states, studies show that many parents do it regardless there. Some do spank or hit in anger. Can this be done without anger? KC said he spanks his son...

What does gay marriage have to do with anything. Breaking the law is against the rules of your fairy tale book, love.
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