To train up a child
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26-11-2013, 01:48 PM
RE: To train up a child
(26-11-2013 08:24 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(25-11-2013 06:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  Because he's not interested in good parenting - only control and domination; training, not teaching.

If we were uninterested in teaching, why did we home school each child until high school?
Because you wanted to make sure your kids were good and brainwashed before you let them around people who could help them?
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26-11-2013, 01:54 PM
RE: To train up a child
(26-11-2013 08:27 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(25-11-2013 06:17 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Hitting/flicking/spanking it's all the same to me. It's wrong. Spanking any child any age 40 times is abusive. Call up the CPS and ask them if your parenting techniques are acceptable.

I respectfully disagree with certain things taught in schools and by psychologists--moreover, I'm in my rights to do so. I 100% agree with CPS where they take a strong stand against striking a child in anger. I don't subscribe to everything CPS or Planned Parenthood or the President or other authorities hold to be facts, and neither should you.

You are not in your rights to commit illegal acts of abuse against your children. The fact that it is illegal means you do not have a right to do it. You can claim it is not abuse but the law says otherwise. You can disagree and you do not stand alone but there are certainly not enough people to stand with you to get the law change. You are in a diminishing minority of barbaric people who still think it's ok to abuse your kids. You can separate yourself from the unloving belt users, but the rest of the world sees you as just as unloving. We put you in the same group as the other abusers. Being a Christian doesn't make it ok.
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27-11-2013, 01:35 PM
RE: To train up a child
(26-11-2013 08:48 AM)sporehux Wrote:  
(26-11-2013 08:42 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  *These things DO work. I've offered to appear on camera to discuss more and perhaps have a child come speak to you as well.

All you need to do PJ is to video tape each "training" session and keep them to show your kids when they are older.
Now think about that, are you going to be proud of what's on that video ?

What is it going to look like when one of your kids uploads a spank session to youtube.
will you be embarrassed or arrested ?

My children presented publicly with their parents last year. They took a Q&A and we discussed all these topics frankly including a demonstration on a table, not a child, of how to spank.
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27-11-2013, 01:38 PM
RE: To train up a child
(26-11-2013 08:49 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(26-11-2013 08:34 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  America is a terrific place where there is currently a lot of sin and evil. The correlation between spanking in this country and Chrisitianity is logical, and my missionary friends in Europe are astonished at Europe's increasing secularization even as it gets overwhelmed by Islam, narcotics abuse, legal prostitution, etc.


Yeah, funny how your supposed 'friends in Europe' are as sadly ignorant as you (assuming you're not just making them up).

Countries with legalized prostitution in Europe have lower rates of sexual assault, STD's, teen pregnancy, and abortion than the United States. The ones with legalized recreational drug use have far less drug related crime, and almost nobody in jail for drug offenses. They treat severe drug addiction as a medical problem, not a criminal one; and it works. The United States has more people in prison as a percentage of population than any country in the word, far outstripping Russia and China combined. Not only that, but the majority of people in prison are there for non-violent drug offenses; we simply have more people in jail cause they were caught with a blunt than we know what to do with. Many European country's deference to their rising Islam populations is a problem, but it's not one you can attempt to blame on their secularism. If Islam is getting preferential treatment or special exemptions (like being allowed to practice Sharia Law), then the countries clearly aren't being secular enough. We allow corporal punishment, and yet have far worse problems with violent crimes and assaults; and they have the highest rates in the more ignorant and biblical states of the Bible Belt. Spare the rod indeed. Using violence as a means of enforcing behavior only encourages the use of more violence.

Once again PJ, you are about as purposely delusional as you can be. Go away troll.

Yes, we have a large prison population. Yes, we are likely reaping what we've sown for our vast exports of slavery, pornography and alcohol to other countries.

Most of our convicts are in prison for alcohol-related offenses. What is helping them and reducing the recitivism rate is Christian outreach.

No, I don't make up missionary friends. People I "grew up with" as a Christian are living and serving in Spain, India, Germany, etc. and as I mentioned, my family supports three other families in Asia and Africa.
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27-11-2013, 01:42 PM
RE: To train up a child
(26-11-2013 08:52 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  Seriously PraiseJesus - as many posts made in this thread and ideas/suggestions/observations offered -- you **still** advocate spanking?
Really?

Most people when faced by incredible education and sound judgement will respond with: "Wow.... never thought of it that way = Ok. Maybe I was wrong to spank."

Course that requires rational thinking. And you Rationalize your thinking.
Psssst -- those two are NOT the same thing. Just sayin

I am aware of the alternatives to spanking. One I've tried to address several times in this thread without getting a response is "time out". "I don't want you here right now... go to your room alone..." where the child sulks... and feels keenly alone... we never did that.

Another item I've attempted to discuss here is that a spanking--and it's over--takes a minute or two to do it calmly and to address the child's questions and etc. Time outs and arguments and long talks can take ten times as long. I understand that people say on this thread "You're just lazy" or "You're just in a rush" but going from a frustrated or angry child to a pleasant child in two minutes is different than the kid crying along in their room for 45 minutes. The latter can truly affect the child's psyche.

Again, I'm willing to talk more details about how I do what I do and why it works both for parents and children, but simply telling me I'm obstinate in my ways is something we both already have learned. Smile Let's discuss the issues, not whether I'm aware of them!
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27-11-2013, 01:42 PM
RE: To train up a child
(27-11-2013 01:35 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(26-11-2013 08:48 AM)sporehux Wrote:  All you need to do PJ is to video tape each "training" session and keep them to show your kids when they are older.
Now think about that, are you going to be proud of what's on that video ?

What is it going to look like when one of your kids uploads a spank session to youtube.
will you be embarrassed or arrested ?

My children presented publicly with their parents last year. They took a Q&A and we discussed all these topics frankly including a demonstration on a table, not a child, of how to spank.

That is so creepy
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27-11-2013, 01:46 PM
RE: To train up a child
(27-11-2013 01:42 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(27-11-2013 01:35 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  My children presented publicly with their parents last year. They took a Q&A and we discussed all these topics frankly including a demonstration on a table, not a child, of how to spank.

That is so creepy

I think it's bullshit just by the way PJ worded it

His children presented publicly with their parents.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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27-11-2013, 01:52 PM
RE: To train up a child
(27-11-2013 01:46 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(27-11-2013 01:42 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  That is so creepy

I think it's bullshit just by the way PJ worded it

His children presented publicly with their parents.

He's been shown to be a liar and he advocates a book of abuse.

Why is anyone responding to him, let alone taking him seriously?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-11-2013, 01:53 PM
RE: To train up a child
(26-11-2013 09:58 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I'm really tired of your semantics game. You didn't spank them with your open hand - you spanked them with a wooden spoon. You still struck them.

That's like saying, your honor, I didn't punch her with a closed fist, I backhanded her across the face!! Therefore, it wasn't an act of violence. Case closed!! Domestic abuse/assault charges dropped!!

What difference does it make *what* you hit them with?! You hit them. Period.

I don't believe you that it wasn't out of anger or frustration. All hitting is out of some form of frustration. Even if you do it with an even tone.

It's almost like after a thorough spanking, you calmly tell them, "there now. That wasn't so bad, was it? Daddy didn't hit you out of anger..."

It's gas lighting. A form of abuse in itself that you would justify ANY act of violence against your children when a simple time out or other discipline methods would have sufficed. You started out with spanking or flicking...you didn't try other methods first.

I freely admit that I once held that spanking was ok. I was spanked. I feel like I turned out ok. What other way did I know of?

Life is just a gamble. We don't know, due to the complexities of human relationships, just what will happen. The best we can ever do is take an educated guess as to which table to lay our chips on.

Now after reading the overwhelming evidence that chances of having negative effects are far greater than the chance of success, I have officially removed my chips from that table. It's not worth the gamble for me.

Doing something out of tradition is rather short sighted and stupid. In fact, it crowds out any room for growth, and innovation. Doctors used to bleed patients with fevers as a cure. Should they continue to do that because it was done in the past and sometimes had favorable results? Imagine what medicine would look like today if we always stuck with tradition?

I'm really shocked that you embrace changes of culture from the bible in other aspects of your life but not this? You no longer buy and sell women like stocks, or advocate the countless other atrocities contained within the text. Why not this too?

Since you think that god is responsible for everything. And therefore also responsible for human advancement, isn't ignoring the information "god" produced as grievance of a sin as letting your child die of a treatable medical condition because it was once tradition to pray away disease?

I'd like to comment on the off topic comments first--then maybe we can focus on spanking and this thread again?

There is in a Matthew passage a statement that Jesus healed those who came to Him "demon possessed or with sickness" - the notion that all disease is metaphysical or that all pathologies require only prayer is not only untrue today, but I don't think even the medieval church taught that. In Jesus's day, in the Bible, in the Middle Ages and now, you could use medicines and poultices and natural cures--prayer wasn't the sole way. I can tell you, however, that prayer is a boon when the doctors are stumped, both for the sick and those who care for them.

It's hard to comment on the "countless atrocities in the text" when they're mainly taken from their proper context. For example, the one you listed included "buying and selling women like stocks". There were dowries in the Bible and there were "gets" for divorces, too. They were Mosaic laws and laws in the prophets where marriage and divorce were economically favoring the women above the men, so, I mean--you just need to read the Bible more, I think, rather than cherry picking verses. Anyone who compares Jesus's treatment of women or the apostles--Paul told men to go to certain women and let them tell them what to do and how to do it--against the Gentile and Roman treatment... which was scandalous...

As for the rest of your post that led to your other comments, I'd say it's slightly irritating to have you keep saying "You're lying." I said many times, you don't spank in anger, period.

But if we take your insinuation further, we have that a judge couldn't possibly be calm when he issues a verdict, or a juror couldn't possibly render an impartial decision and that's ridiculous. When a child lies to you or steals from you or throws a glass of water at you, you can go to the other room and calm down. When you return, is it not possible to train, educate or mete out a punishment while being calm? Are you sure?

And no, let's not play semantics. I and my wife only struck my children or hit them with objects. They (sometimes) cried. They sometimes got pissed at us and didn't cry and yelled at us or talked back to us after--showing they still had some spunk, right?

80% and up of parents spank. Not all of them run about with chain saws and drink beer and hunt ducks, either.

I hear your passion against striking a child with an object, when you're calm, in love, and with patient words of instruction for the child, and then telling them after, they will be forgiven.

Regardless, I stand behind "He who hates his child spares him discipline" and there will be consequences.

And to cut to the chase--spiritual as well as emotional consequences.
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27-11-2013, 01:55 PM
RE: To train up a child
(27-11-2013 01:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(27-11-2013 01:46 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I think it's bullshit just by the way PJ worded it

His children presented publicly with their parents.

He's been shown to be a liar and he advocates a book of abuse.

Why is anyone responding to him, let alone taking him seriously?

Oh Chas...you're such a buzz-kill at times.
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God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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