To train up a child
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28-11-2013, 09:33 AM
RE: To train up a child
(27-11-2013 11:24 PM)sporehux Wrote:  According to Michael Pearl:

“But if your husband has sexually molested the children, you should approach him with it. If he is truly repentant (not just exposed) and is willing to seek counseling, you may feel comfortable giving him an opportunity to prove himself, as long as you know the children are safe. If there is any thought that they are not safe, or if he is not repentant and willing to seek help, then go to the law and have him arrested. Stick by him, but testify against him in court. Have him do about 10 to 20 years, and by the time he gets out, you will have raised the kids, and you can be waiting for him with open arms of forgiveness and restitution. Will this glorify God? Forever. You ask, “What if he doesn't repent even then?” Then you will be rewarded in heaven equal to the martyrs, and God will have something to rub in the Devil’s face. God hates divorce — always, forever, regardless, without exception.”

There's no mention of what's best for the kids, just what's best for god. I still wonder how it is a 'god' can hate anything… can you say 'projecting'?

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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01-12-2013, 08:56 AM
RE: To train up a child
Since PJ is all about being calm while hiting...since it's Christmas, I ran across a quote from Bing Crosby's son, Gary. Where he speaks about the calmness...

"I dropped my pants, pulled down my undershorts and bent over. Then he went at it with the belt dotted with metal studs he kept reserved for the occasion. Quite dispassionately, without the least display of emotion or loss of self-control, he whacked away until he drew the first drop of blood, and then he stopped. It normally took between twelve and fifteen strokes. I counted them off one by one and hoped I would bleed early. To keep my mind off the hurt, I would conjure up different schemes to get back at him, ways to murder him.
—Gary Crosby, Going My Own Way, 1983 "

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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01-12-2013, 09:03 AM
RE: To train up a child
Maybe PJ should not give plug pulling powers to his kids.
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Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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02-12-2013, 03:14 PM
RE: To train up a child
(27-11-2013 04:36 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(27-11-2013 03:56 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I don't actually believe that a large plurality if not majority of people who visit casting couches and are sexualized, and then appear on camera having sex with total strangers aren't desperate for money, or runaways, or hungry for affection, or come from homes where they were molested, or were lied to in Hollywood or elsewhere, etc? Oh, but I do.

Jenna Jamieson, a successful porn star, stated that she did not have a troubled childhood. Now, while there are some that have, there are some that haven't.

Are you trying to make the correlation between actors/actresses in the adult industry (a BILLION dollar industry I might add and Its not just the atheist's watching it neither) and troubled childhoods? Because its a weak one.

You might as well make the correlation between those who join the military and troubled childhoods with the same result.

You are starting with the assumption that the porn industry is wrong. Nay nay. Those are consenting adults, engaging in an activity, wherein the consumer buys the footage of that activity. Period. Some porn stars are married. Some are not. I might not choose that same lifestyle for myself, but hey, at least they are honest.

To be specific, you'd likely not choose that industry because if you were a female starlet, you'd:

*have sex with as many as hundreds of strangers in a year and on camera, while people watching, directing, etc. are lusting or even masturbating to your performance

*need STD testing monthly

*be aged prematurely

*be an unlikely candidate for normative love or sex relationships off camera

*experience vaginal and anal tears and etc.

All I'm saying is the "it's for them, not for me" is stepping aside from the fact that it's harmful to the participants and to the porn addicted.
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02-12-2013, 03:18 PM
RE: To train up a child
(27-11-2013 04:42 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(27-11-2013 03:49 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  What goes on privately, yes, and certainly.

However, calling some of the poor, adled, beaten, prostituted, drug-abusing wretches who perform for bondage videos and magazines "consenting adults" is a stretch. A stand against pornography is a stand for the mental and physical health of pornography actors, and perhaps we should elevate their needs above our own sexual needs for a change as a culture. What do you say? Will you take a stand to help others?

How do you know she is beaten, or poor, or prostituted, or drug-abusing? Do you know the performer personally? All you see her performance, you do not see her life. (anymore than I know Tom Hanks as a person because I saw him in a movie. His personal life and personality portrayed on screen I'm sure is not the same as who he is in his private life). Is she uttering the code word to stop the hitting? You are making a lot of assumptions here about an actor/actress on camera that you do not personally know. You understand that porn does not actually depict real interactions between people, right? You understand that normal sexual interaction does not generally including standing on your head to fuck? And you know that those "orgasms" you hear aren't really orgasms, right?





And someone's desires for S&M isn't deranged just because it doesn't fit into your narrow sexuality. Just like anal/oral sex isn't reserved for gay people. straight people engage in this type of consensual activity too. The key word here is consent. You do not have the consent of your children to hit them.

Speaking of code words….did your kids get to tell you to stop spanking them after your 25th time? Or did you keep going….against their CONSENT?

You've brought out three issues:

1) I don't know porn actors personally but many of them have testimonies that may be read--or appear on campuses nationwide to speak out--or have died or appeared in court. This is not a healthy lifestyle choice for the participants.

2) The term "age of consent" implies that their are parental rights that supersede the rights of the children based on age and etc. Further, as a evolutionist, you'd agree that I can engage in certain behaviors instinctually to enhance my survivability and that of my children. There are consequences to not disciplining children, including spanking and other discipline forms you have used.

3) "Consensual" does not equal "moral" or "safe" or "survivable".
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02-12-2013, 03:20 PM
RE: To train up a child
(27-11-2013 04:44 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(27-11-2013 03:38 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I've read a little de Sade, and a little about those of his ilk like the mass murderer Gilles de Rais. I do know that we'd find his particular brand of bondage porn tame compared with today's.

But I will note the irony that Chas is condemning me for promoting an abuse manual--without ever posting once that what he's attempting to condemn is what he would call sadism--the harming of others to promote one's pleasure.

You, too, are condemning spanking--my kind of spanking--as sadism while you have a de Sade quote on your signature? Or is it only okay for adult sadists to torture other adults for pleasure?

You are being intentionally obtuse. Pornography is acting. It is not real life.
Sexual acts between consenting adults is not comparable to child abuse.

Real life porn actors have spread communicable disease and died of horrible addictions. Quite a number of failed actors and teen runaways have wound up in porn. It's not a safe lifestyle. It's an assumed risk as with being a stuntman or fireman. The difference is also a moral difference, a real difference.
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02-12-2013, 03:22 PM
RE: To train up a child
(27-11-2013 05:06 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(27-11-2013 03:41 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Did Mao die for you specifically? Did he die for you because you are a good person? In what way did Mao die for you? Please tell me more or else let's stick to this thread's ideas.
You asserted that Jesus died and that this gives you reason to spank children.
(27-11-2013 01:59 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  A key point is "Jesus was spanked for us" - He took our punishment for our own sin. A spanked child very easily trusts in Christ, and often at a tender age. If that's a reason you dislike spanking, that's a decision you need to make!
I'm trying to make sense of what you said. But it seems nonsensical.
The story goes that Jesus was killed by the Romans. Jesus didn't kill himself, he didn't die for me because I didn't even exist at the time and I don't benefit from his death.
How was his death any different from the death of anyone else that supposedly lived and died?
You say that Jesus was without sin, but there is a great deal of people whom are without sin.
You ask me if Mao died specifically for me, well Mao didn't know me and neither did Jesus. I didn't benefit personally from the alleged death of either of these figures.
You say that spanked children easily trust Jesus, so does that mean that spanked children easily trust Mao?

I'm not following how Jesus's alleged death relates to spanked children.
Are you able to clarify in a way that makes sense?

My children understood at a young age that Jesus was a substitutionary atonement, not in those words but as "Jesus was spanked. Spankings are for wrongdoing that goes uncorrected. Jesus was spanked for our sin."

You asked why Jesus's death was different. Jesus was sinless and was able to become a sin sacrifice for our sake.
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02-12-2013, 03:24 PM
RE: To train up a child
(27-11-2013 06:14 PM)sporehux Wrote:  
(27-11-2013 03:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  Correlation is not causation, so you fail there. Your lack of critical thinking skills becomes more apparent with every post.

We are not talking about 'sin' or pornography, but consent.

You advocate the use of violence to bend children to your will, to train them as you would beasts.

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Exactly, I specifically brought my children up to "Not Obey",
I detested the "do it or else" "because I said so" bullshit I had to grow up with.
I instilled with them the idea that they are to obey nobody with out good reason.
There have been no instances in 17 years that this method has been a problem.
They cleanup because they see the rational reason for it, they are respectful to people because of empathy.
They follow teachers instructions because they understand they are there to educated them.

OBEY is a bullshit word.... (submit to the authority).. its evil, immoral and its all training a child is trying to accomplish

In my mind, not being trained to obey helps them resist child predators, harmful peer pressure. and I'm
positive they would walk out of a Milgram experiment in disgust http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

People are not sheep. and should not be indoctrinated to "follow"

I agree with what you shared, however, I add the dichotomy to it of trust/not trust:

*We don't obey strangers

*We obey our parents

I'm not understanding how you would raise your children to disobey you at each opportunity. Please explain.
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02-12-2013, 03:27 PM
RE: To train up a child
(27-11-2013 08:14 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(27-11-2013 01:38 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Yes, we have a large prison population. Yes, we are likely reaping what we've sown for our vast exports of slavery, pornography and alcohol to other countries.

Most of our convicts are in prison for alcohol-related offenses. What is helping them and reducing the recitivism rate is Christian outreach.

No, I don't make up missionary friends. People I "grew up with" as a Christian are living and serving in Spain, India, Germany, etc. and as I mentioned, my family supports three other families in Asia and Africa.

Dude, you are such a lying shit. We didn't export slaves, we imported them wholesale. We import far more alcohol than we export. Also, what's the problem with porn? Of right, you think basically it's modern slavery being run by the mafia; taking a small extreme and pretending it represents the whole industry. Do you know which state has the highest pornography usage? Utah, the seat of Mormonism, followed by the rest of the Bible belt. Methinks someone is try, and failing, to suppress natural (and harmless) human desires and drives.

Also, going 'Christian' is anything from a good check-mark to a requirement to getting through a parole board. If it meant getting out of prison faster, I'd pretend and give lip service to Jesus too. Does that actually make me (or any of them) a Christian? What do you think?

[Image: 693px-US_incarceration_timeline-clean-fi...le.svg.png]

Gee, does that graph line up with the prohibition of alcohol or a massive increase in it's consumption? Nope, but it does match the start of the 'War on Drugs' and the privatization of prisons!

Here are statistics from 2012 for the Federal prison system.

Types of Offenses.
Drug Offenses: 100,114 (50.1 %)
Weapons, Explosives, Arson: 30,723 (15.4 %)
Immigration: 21,841 (10.9 %)
Robbery: 7,678 (3.8 %)
Burglary, Larceny, Property Offenses: 7,668 (3.8 %)
Extortion, Fraud, Bribery: 10,810 (5.4 %)
Homicide, Aggravated Assault, and Kidnapping Offenses: 5,614 (2.8 %)
Miscellaneous: 1,562 (0.8 %)
Sex Offenses: 11,826 (5.9 %)
Banking and Insurance, Counterfeit, Embezzlement: 792 (0.4 %)
Courts or Corrections: 626 (0.3 %)
Continuing Criminal Enterprise: 477 (0.2 %)
National Security: 79 (0.0 %)

http://www.bop.gov/news/quick.jsp#4



Violent and nonviolent crime
7.9% of sentenced prisoners in federal prisons on September 30, 2009 were in for violent crimes. 52.4% of sentenced prisoners in state prisons at year end 2008 were in for violent crimes. 21.6% of convicted inmates in jails in 2002 (latest available data by type of offense) were in for violent crimes. Among unconvicted inmates in jails in 2002, 34% had a violent offense as the most serious charge. 41% percent of convicted and unconvicted jail inmates in 2002 had a current or prior violent offense; 46% were nonviolent recidivists.

From 2000 to 2008, the state prison population increased by 159,200 prisoners, and violent offenders accounted for 60% of this increase. The number of drug offenders in state prisons declined by 12,400 over this period. Furthermore, while the number of sentenced violent offenders in state prison increased from 2000 through 2008, the expected length of stays for these offenders declined slightly during this period.

Violent crime was not responsible for the quadrupling of the incarcerated population in the United States from 1980 to 2003. Violent crime rates had been relatively constant or declining over those decades. The prison population was increased primarily by public policy changes causing more prison sentences and lengthening time served, e.g. through mandatory minimum sentencing, "three strikes" laws, and reductions in the availability of parole or early release. These policies were championed as protecting the public from serious and violent offenders, but instead yielded high rates of confinement for nonviolent offenders. Nearly three quarters of new admissions to state prison were convicted of nonviolent crimes. 49 percent of sentenced state inmates were held for violent offenses. Perhaps the single greatest force behind the growth of the prison population has been the national "war on drugs." The number of incarcerated drug offenders has increased twelvefold since 1980. In 2000, 22 percent of those in federal and state prisons were convicted on drug charges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarcerati...lent_crime

Yes, the Mormons and Christians have a high rate of porn addiction (and alcohol for the Mormons). People who lived suppressed explode into certain outlets. You are correct. That still does not make lust moral or porn a safe and healthy industry.

We do export alcohol from our California vintners and our bourbons and whiskeys, etc. but I'm sorry I excluded our importation of items as well. We lead the world in porn and in certain imperialist and money-making initiatives.

When I wrote we export slavery, I was referring to sex slavery, porn slavery and etc. and not to our importation of physical slaves.
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02-12-2013, 03:30 PM
RE: To train up a child
(27-11-2013 08:50 PM)sporehux Wrote:  
(27-11-2013 08:14 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Dude, you are such a lying shit.

[Image: 693px-US_incarceration_timeline-clean-fi...le.svg.png]

Gee, does that graph line up with the prohibition of alcohol or a massive increase in it's consumption? Nope, but it does match the start of the 'War on Drugs' and the privatization of prisons!

Here are statistics from 2012 for the Federal prison system.

Types of Offenses.
Drug Offenses: 100,114 (50.1 %)
Weapons, Explosives, Arson: 30,723 (15.4 %)
Immigration: 21,841 (10.9 %)
Robbery: 7,678 (3.8 %)
Burglary, Larceny, Property Offenses: 7,668 (3.8 %)
Extortion, Fraud, Bribery: 10,810 (5.4 %)
Homicide, Aggravated Assault, and Kidnapping Offenses: 5,614 (2.8 %)
Miscellaneous: 1,562 (0.8 %)
Sex Offenses: 11,826 (5.9 %)
Banking and Insurance, Counterfeit, Embezzlement: 792 (0.4 %)
Courts or Corrections: 626 (0.3 %)
Continuing Criminal Enterprise: 477 (0.2 %)
National Security: 79 (0.0 %)

http://www.bop.gov/news/quick.jsp#4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarcerati...lent_crime

Considering most prisoners would have been born pre 1990, and they are >95% American. You could be pretty accurate in saying that they would be
>80% Spanked children with religious upbringing.

Acknowledged.

What percentage of spanking parents are gentle, soft-spoken, born again Christians who spank only when absolutely calm and in self-control? (Few)

What percentage of religious persons have a born again, real relationship with Jesus? (Few)

As I've written spanking is like alcohol, sexual desire or anything else that is good in and of itself unless taken too far. There's nothing wrong with a glass of wine or two--there's something terribly wrong with destroying a family or business with alcohol.
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