To train up a child
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19-11-2013, 11:29 PM
RE: To train up a child
(19-11-2013 06:37 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(19-11-2013 03:58 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  My children are now a sophomore in high school and a junior in college. Still obedient (mostly), respectful and etc. There is so much I'd like to share but it continues to sound like a show trial here from 1930's Russia... "Did you do ANY of those things I'm quoting to you? If you did, you have no context and no reason, so you're guilty, guilty, guilty..."

On the other hand, I was recalling earlier today a fellow who approached me after years had gone by when I'd preached to him--he said "These years later, you were right about so many things regarding rearing children and about family outcomes and etc. You were right..."

I did have something I wanted to begin with, regarding training a child under the age of one year, but I'd sure like it if we can set some ground rules and see a little more respect for another's life experience than you've given so far--why not pretend I'm a fellow atheist for now--and then you can only occasionally curse or mock me rather than every time you post?

I'd like to talk about this subject precisely BECAUSE it's sensitive, but y'all need to get over your own issues a bit before we can go forward with mutual respect. I KNOW child rearing is sensitive, I hit these blocks often in public preaching--try to act with mentality, not mob mentality, how about it, folks?

Public preaching? Like you are one of those crazy assholes in NYC with the sandwich signs about how fornication is the way to hell, repent!!

Would that surprise you at all?

Oh, and that would be about how masturbation is the way to hell, in PJ's case...Laughat

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19-11-2013, 11:46 PM
RE: To train up a child
(19-11-2013 03:58 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  My children are now a sophomore in high school and a junior in college. Still obedient (mostly), respectful and etc. There is so much I'd like to share but it continues to sound like a show trial here from 1930's Russia... "Did you do ANY of those things I'm quoting to you? If you did, you have no context and no reason, so you're guilty, guilty, guilty..."

Well, you did say...

(19-11-2013 02:43 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  My children show every evidence of having NOT been abused. I do pretty much everything the Pearls do and did, and my children are not abused.

So that is you, essentially, giving your blanket approval of the book and everything therein. So when we find out just how vile that book is, your actions are colored by association. If you didn't think it was that great in the first place, or if there were some important caveats (that you allude to later but never actually give), then you should have been smart enough to put them up front.


(19-11-2013 03:58 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  On the other hand, I was recalling earlier today a fellow who approached me after years had gone by when I'd preached to him--he said "These years later, you were right about so many things regarding rearing children and about family outcomes and etc. You were right..."

This is baseless illogical pandering, and par for the course from you. I don't give a flying fuck about your anecdotal story about someone you say agrees with you. You will not convince anybody here that your position is any more sensible because you told us of someone else who found what you said convincing. It might work for people ignorant enough to actually believe you, but most everyone here holds themselves to a much higher standard of evidence (which you are consistently unable to reach).


(19-11-2013 03:58 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I did have something I wanted to begin with, regarding training a child under the age of one year, but I'd sure like it if we can set some ground rules and see a little more respect for another's life experience than you've given so far--why not pretend I'm a fellow atheist for now--and then you can only occasionally curse or mock me rather than every time you post?

If a fellow atheist advocated beating their children and playing fucking mind games with them to turn them into unquestioningly obedient *cough - slaves - cough* children? I'd tell them to fuck right off too, and if I saw it actually happening, I'd call the authorities.


(19-11-2013 03:58 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I'd like to talk about this subject precisely BECAUSE it's sensitive, but y'all need to get over your own issues a bit before we can go forward with mutual respect. I KNOW child rearing is sensitive, I hit these blocks often in public preaching--try to act with mentality, not mob mentality, how about it, folks?

Mutual respect? You lost that when you said...

(19-11-2013 02:43 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I do pretty much everything the Pearls do and did, and my children are not abused.

Don't want to be guilty by association? Be a little more careful on which fundy Christian books you give blanket support to on this forum.

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19-11-2013, 11:58 PM
RE: To train up a child
Get 'im, EK. Thumbsup

Guy's a fucking douchebag who obviously socializes with like-minded throwbacks. Dodgy

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20-11-2013, 02:14 AM
RE: To train up a child
My two cents worth on this very important topic…

Power in Families

In the bible, people are ordered to obey God, and punished if they don’t. In Ephesians 6:1, Paul states that children should obey their parents, as if it were a universal and infallible truth. It’s no surprise that parents feel justified in lording it over their own children, and that the abuse of power is a serious issue in many fundamentalist families.

Smart parents know that good parenting requires thought and effort. Interactions with children need to be perceptive, individualized, and developmentally appropriate. Fundamentalist parents often avoid the effort and complexity of this responsibility. Rather, doctrinal rules are applied, and fear of punishment used for control. The family is deprived of the constructive process of developing rules, values, and mores. Children can fail to learn how to take on the personal responsibility of making choices about life issues later in life.

Physical and Sexual Abuse

Physical punishment is sanctioned in the bible:
“ He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.” (Proverbs 13:24, KJV.)

Some parents take this to extremes, believing it’s necessary to break the will of their children to gain their respect and obedience. This dictatorial attitude is typically patriarchal, and reliance is often placed upon Paul’s mantras on women and children for justification.

Some fundamentalist wives have difficulty stopping the cycle of physical abuse in their marital relationships because of biblical beliefs about marriage and sex-role stereotypes.

Sexual abuse occurs in many strictly religious families, for a number of complex reasons. In my opinion fundamentalist beliefs can inhibit true emotional development and compromise communication skills. An inability to communicate in a mature fashion impairs normal adult-to-adult sexual intimacy; which may be why some adults turn to children for sexual gratification. This fits with the fact that pedophiles are often emotionally immature.

The fundamentalist mother, often taught to treat her husband like a little god, is less likely to question or interfere with the father’s behavior, or report him to the appropriate authorities.

Children are told to be obedient and to revere their parents, especially their fathers, so they’re more vulnerable and less likely to seek help.

Religion Replacing Love

There’s nothing more crucial to a child’s emotional development than natural love and affection from parents and family. Some parents use religion to compensate for what’s lacking in their own repertoire of parenting skills. Not good at expressing love or even affection, they use prayer as a substitute, presuming their children will benefit from a “personal relationship with Jesus,” and in doing so push them away. Children feel rejected, as they assume they aren’t good enough for their parents. The faith is at fault, because it over emphasizes the relationship with God, and too often downplays the importance of interpersonal love.

As a consequence, fundamentalist families can be unaffectionate, lacking fun, spontaneity and laughter. There isn't enough “realness” and self-confidence to freely give the hugs, compliments, and unconditional love that children so desperately crave and need. Individuals become burdened with self-esteem issues and difficulty expressing their own affection for others.

“Un-Christian” Emotions

In many fundamentalist families, troubling “un-Christian” emotions such as anger or frustration are denied. People are told to pray, rather than discuss issues. The emphasis is on being “right with God” and “good” according to the bible, rather than allowing individuals to express what they intuitively feel. “Emotionality” is suspect, and there are always “higher” concerns than personal feelings. As a consequence, people struggle to reconcile their need for love and recognition with an acute feeling of shame whenever they, rather than God, are the focus of attention. They avoid dealing with real issues until the point is reached when emotions boil over. Then there are explosions of anger, followed by intense feelings of guilt, but a refusal to talk about what happened. The cycle is often repeated, producing a family of deeply emotionally scarred, angry, poorly self-expressed people.
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20-11-2013, 06:41 AM (This post was last modified: 20-11-2013 06:46 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: To train up a child
(19-11-2013 03:58 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  My children are now a sophomore in high school and a junior in college.

Hmmm. Really ? And which one was going to Yale this year again ?
You told us one of them was starting Yale this (past) Fall.
Elephants never forget, (well at least elephant-eared people Weeping )
You weren't just joshin' us again were you, PleasyButCaughtFibbingAgainForJebus ?
How do we know when to believe you and when not ? Is there a prophesy that *perdicts* that ? We need perdictions. Tongue

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20-11-2013, 07:21 AM
RE: To train up a child
(20-11-2013 06:41 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(19-11-2013 03:58 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  My children are now a sophomore in high school and a junior in college.

Hmmm. Really ? And which one was going to Yale this year again ?
You told us one of them was starting Yale this (past) Fall.
Elephants never forget, (well at least elephant-eared people Weeping )
You weren't just joshin' us again were you, PleasyButCaughtFibbingAgainForJebus ?
How do we know when to believe you and when not ? Is there a prophesy that *perdicts* that ? We need perdictions. Tongue

I thought prophets were supposed to give advice? Consider

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20-11-2013, 10:03 AM
RE: To train up a child
PJ - it seems a bit late in the thread to be arguing that you haven't had a chance to explain your parenting techniques, and how they do or do not relate to the Pearls' methods. I too am interested in what techniques you apply from their work.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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20-11-2013, 11:21 AM
RE: To train up a child
(20-11-2013 10:03 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  PJ - it seems a bit late in the thread to be arguing that you haven't had a chance to explain your parenting techniques, and how they do or do not relate to the Pearls' methods. I too am interested in what techniques you apply from their work.

He complains about not being given the chance to explain himself and then leaves. I usually try to think the best of people until they make it certain that they are not good people, but as it is right now I can only think bad things.
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20-11-2013, 11:23 AM
RE: To train up a child
There is no reasonable explanation.

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20-11-2013, 11:38 AM
RE: To train up a child
(20-11-2013 11:23 AM)Anjele Wrote:  There is no reasonable explanation.

I agree, but I still wish he would say something. I try really hard not to judge other people on how they raise their kids. And if it's just spanking, it bothers me but it won't make me dislike a person or think they're a terrible parent. I guess I'm just clinging to the hope that he'll come back and say that's all he meant. If I knew someone personally who said they do the stuff from that book I would immediately report them to child protective services. Three kids have already died and I don't even want to know how many more have suffered from the abuse advocated in that book.
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