Today In History.
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02-02-2018, 12:02 AM
RE: Today In History.
Russia at the time did not feel in the position to tell Germany to "fuck off". Stalin's evil actions with ''agricultural" reform in the 1930's had very much weakened the Ukraine.

I think, but yes do not know, that given the political situation in Russia that Stalin was forced to allow Germany to attack. That, he knew, would rally the country around him.
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02-02-2018, 05:36 AM
RE: Today In History.
(01-02-2018 09:09 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 04:33 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Germany, England, and France considered the USSR to be a danger to their way of life. Only Germany was an immediate threat to the Soviets. Pragmatism carried the day.

Maybe pragmatism should have said (Russians to the Germans) "Knock yourself out taking over the rest of the world but Hey don't even think about invading us. We're lined up on the border, we're ready to defend ourselves. We don't need a treaty with you; fuck off."

They moved their borders west a good ways. When you consider that the point elements of the Heer reported they could see the spires of the Kremlin as the German push to Moscow faltered and ground to a halt it seems like a good deal for them.

The triangular relations in those days have spilled a lot of ink.
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02-02-2018, 03:51 PM
RE: Today In History.
Today, February 2nd, New York City first became a city -- as "New Amsterdam", 1653. Yes

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02-02-2018, 05:54 PM
RE: Today In History.
As strange as this sounds, 25 years ago today ... the movie Groundhog Day premiered.

Dodgy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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06-02-2018, 04:46 PM
RE: Today In History.
(02-02-2018 05:54 PM)kim Wrote:  As strange as this sounds, 25 years ago today ... the movie Groundhog Day premiered.

Dodgy

What. again? Big Grin

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06-02-2018, 05:16 PM
RE: Today In History.
(06-02-2018 04:46 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(02-02-2018 05:54 PM)kim Wrote:  As strange as this sounds, 25 years ago today ... the movie Groundhog Day premiered.

Dodgy

What. again? Big Grin

What goes around

What goes around

What goes around

What goes around

What goes around

What goes around

What goes around

What goes around

What goes around

What goes around

What goes around

What goes around

What goes around
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08-02-2018, 06:10 PM
RE: Today In History.
Today, February 8th, is the 94th anniversary of the first official use of the gas chamber to perform a prison execution in the US.

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10-02-2018, 12:11 AM
RE: Today In History.
(31-01-2018 07:45 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(31-01-2018 07:40 PM)JAH Wrote:  In Stalin's defence he may have sacrificed some 20 million of his people but he did much more to defeat the Nazi's than Eisenhower did.

In Eisenhower's defense he signed fewer non-aggression treaties with the Nazis than Stalin did.

Well, Hitler wasn't in Eisenhower's mum's backyard. In fact, he couldn't reach Eisenhower's mum's backyard. He was in Stalin's backyard, though. One wonders what might have happened if Britain hadn't handed Hitler a non-aggression treaty and  Czechoslovakia in Munich in 1938. I also wonder what might have happened if Britain, France and Poland had agreed to Stalin's offer of an alliance on August 15, 1939. Maybe no Holocaust, no WWII ?

One can understand the USSR's reluctance to be alone and friendless on the wrong side of Hitler's land grab . She'd tried and failed to secure an alliance with Britain, France and Poland, she'd already sustained the highest death toll of any country in WWI and it was clear to her Hitler had no intentions of stopping.
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...-pact.html


https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-telegraph/


http://ww1facts.net/quick-reference/ww1-casualties/





 
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10-02-2018, 01:37 AM (This post was last modified: 10-02-2018 01:49 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Today In History.
(10-02-2018 12:11 AM)Sushisnake Wrote:  Well, Hitler wasn't in Eisenhower's mum's backyard. In fact, he couldn't reach Eisenhower's mum's backyard. He was in Stalin's backyard, though. One wonders what might have happened if Britain hadn't handed Hitler a non-aggression treaty and  Czechoslovakia in Munich in 1938. I also wonder what might have happened if Britain, France and Poland had agreed to Stalin's offer of an alliance on August 15, 1939. Maybe no Holocaust, no WWII ?

I wonder what might have happened if one mustached murderous tyrant didn't decided to back another mustached not yet quite as murderous tyrant. As things stood before German invasion of Poland it was Stalin who had blood of millions on his hands; if not for his pact then perhaps Hitler wouldn't attack Poland.

Quote:One can understand the USSR's reluctance to be alone and friendless on the wrong side of Hitler's land grab . She'd tried and failed to secure an alliance with Britain, France and Poland, she'd already sustained the highest death toll of any country in WWI and it was clear to her Hitler had no intentions of stopping.

Poor, poor USSR with which nobody wanted to ally. I wonder if being totalitarian regime which tried to bring revolution on bayonets to Europe not even 20 years ago might have something to do with it.

Stalin being smart if criminally minded just realized that Hitler is willing to give him more than Western powers I think. Hence the pact. To attack USSR Hitler would have to go through Poland which already denied him (granted not because of love for USSR) - in helping Hitler to dismantle this country Stalin only brought enemy closer.

ETA: Oleg Khlevniuk in his Stalin: New Biography of a Dictator make good points about alliances and why Western powers might have been reluctant to enter ones with Stalin.

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10-02-2018, 01:47 AM
RE: Today In History.
(31-01-2018 07:40 PM)JAH Wrote:  In Stalin's defence he may have sacrificed some 20 million of his people but he did much more to defeat the Nazi's than Eisenhower did.

I actually do have a much less favourable position on him regarding his relations to Nazi Germany.
If you have a closer look, Germany and the Soviet union had pretty close ties, economically and even militarily. Until the Soviet Union being attacked, Stalin seemed to have had no problem at all with being so closely associated (despite being on opposite sides of the spanish civil war) with nazi Germany.

My impression is that he did what he did out of sheer self preservation. He tried to preserve his "empire" and his rule/ass (which were closely tied together), knowing that once his empire is beaten he will be killed (after a probable trial). He didnt just defend his realm, he defended his physical life, he took the chance of expanding his control once he realized he was in a position to do so (Teheran in 1943 showed that the western allies were already willing to make considerable concessions to him). Just look at how the red army let the germans crush the Warsaw uprising in 1944. That didnt looke like he wanted ot beat fascism, bu trather let two opponents (of his!) wear themselves out, so that once occupied there would be less resistance to (his) communist rule over Poland.

He took the chance to get control of complete easten Europe up to Germany and Italy after along with restoring the rule of his original realm. Thats what he sacrificed 20million russian lives (and more) for, not for just beating nazism. If you were being a commoner back then, living under Stains rule and living under a nazi (german) rule would have made just a marginal difference.

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