Tolerance
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10-07-2014, 10:35 PM
RE: Tolerance
(08-07-2014 07:22 AM)thesleepingatheist Wrote:  Many of you in your arguments against theists will often come up against the apologetic of "Why can we not all just have our own beliefs?"

The easiest way to explain why we do what we do is because beliefs inform actions, and when those beliefs are not based on truth, or rather, they are based on faith, they can cause people to act in a way that is harmful around them.

What then is the limit when explaining to people why their beliefs are unwarranted?

I have many friends who are secular who tell me "Their beliefs are not harming you, the religious are not harming the irreligious."

One night, I became infuriated with my secular friends inability to see the evidence I was throwing at him, explaining the need to verbally brutalize the beliefs of theists. I told him the reasons, and he replied "I also have the ability to realize talking about certain private things is 'aspy' and makes people hate you."


How do we deal with this? We have religious against us, and we have people in our community who are against us challenging the religious.

I am tired of this.


It's quite annoying, I know. The attitude I have taken is this: if somebody is religious and their religion gives them comfort, and they don't go spouting that crap all the time, then I have no problem with it at all. Let it be, as far as I'm concerned.

What I will not do is give religion a free pass:

I will not allow somebody to preach their religious crap at me, and telling how to live my life without telling them where they can shove their religious garbage.

I will not treat somebody who is preaching hatred for religious reasons any different than I would treat some skinhead preaching hatred against others for things like skin color or nationality.

I will speak up when people are trying to use their religious beliefs to justify political actions that give their religion, or even religion in general, special treatment.

I will not handle some religious zealot with kid gloves just because they have gotten a free pass for so long. I go by the saying "don't dish it if you can't take it", and if they can't take the criticism, then that's just too fucking bad for them.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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11-07-2014, 05:55 AM
RE: Tolerance
(09-07-2014 08:17 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  
(09-07-2014 07:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  The actual point is that it is separation of church and state - not one's individual beliefs, but the hierarchy.

Yes but we are discussing Anti-theism here and why should one hate religion. My argument is that even if a separation of the Hierarchy and State is possible, the separation of ones personal views and politics is not. As such one should not be apathetic towards the beliefs of others because they can have a very real effect upon you.

I would like to point out that ones beliefs can affect other areas of another's life, I just think politics to be the most clear and efficacious example.

I agree that we should be concerned about others' beliefs and their resulting actions.

However, it was never the intent of the First Amendment to separate belief and action.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-07-2014, 07:26 AM (This post was last modified: 11-07-2014 10:05 AM by WindyCityJazz.)
RE: Tolerance
(11-07-2014 05:55 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-07-2014 08:17 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Yes but we are discussing Anti-theism here and why should one hate religion. My argument is that even if a separation of the Hierarchy and State is possible, the separation of ones personal views and politics is not. As such one should not be apathetic towards the beliefs of others because they can have a very real effect upon you.

I would like to point out that ones beliefs can affect other areas of another's life, I just think politics to be the most clear and efficacious example.

I agree that we should be concerned about others' beliefs and their resulting actions.

However, it was never the intent of the First Amendment to separate belief and action.

Well said. Separation of church and state wasn't about anti-theism. It was about not allowing religious organizations to infringe on people's rights based on their religious beliefs. Many of the men that helped write the Constitution were not all that crazy about religion. Thomas Jefferson made his disdain for religion quite clear, saying things like "religion has turned one half of the world into fools and the other half into hypocrites". The last thing they would want is for the U.S. to turn into a theocracy. That's why the Constitution is designed to allow people their religious beliefs, and at the same time keep laws based on Constitutional rights that religious organizations cannot infringe upon. That's why the Supreme Court was created to strike down unconstitutional laws, and that is the sole job of a Supreme Court justice - no matter what their personal beliefs, their decision is only to be made upon the question of "Does this go against the Constitution?" Of course, today's Supreme Court is making that all look like a joke now.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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