Tolerance is over rated
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22-10-2010, 03:33 PM
RE: Tolerance is over rated
Tolerance is necessary for a wise society.

But showing tolerance to the intolerant might defeat its sole purpose - a bit of a paradox. I think someone already made a similar point , so sorry if I am repeating.
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22-10-2010, 04:20 PM
 
RE: Tolerance is over rated
This is an interesting passage to interject into this discussion, I think.


The first principle is true tolerance, what might be called “civility.” It can loosely be equated with the word “respect.” Tolerance applies to how we treat people we disagree with, not how we treat ideas we think false. Tolerance requires that every person is treated courteously, no matter what her view, not that all views have equal worth, merit, or truth.

Don’t let this new notion of tolerance intimidate you. Treat all people with respect, but be willing to show them where their ideas have gone wrong. The modern notion of tolerance actually turns this value on its head. It’s one of the first responses deployed when you take exception with what someone has said. “You’re intolerant.”

"To say I’m intolerant because I disagree with someone’s ideas is confused. The view that one person’s ideas are no better or truer than another’s is simply absurd and contradictory. To argue that some views are false, immoral, or just plain silly does not violate any meaningful definition or standard of tolerance.

The irony is that according to the classical notion of tolerance, you can’t tolerate someone unless you disagree with him. We don’t “tolerate” people who share our views. They’re on our side. There’s nothing to “put up” with. Tolerance is reserved for those who we think are wrong, yet we still choose to treat them decently and with respect.

This essential element of classical tolerance—elitism regarding ideas—has been completely lost in the modern distortion of the concept. Nowadays if you think someone is wrong, you’re called intolerant no matter how you treat them." More Reading

Thoughts? Smile

I think they have a good point about classical tolerance.
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22-10-2010, 04:41 PM
RE: Tolerance is over rated
@GassyKitten

Very good point.
Loved this:
“Be egalitarian regarding persons.”
“Be elitist regarding ideas.” Peter Kreeft

Many of us forget or ignorantly deny the true meaning of a concept.
People deserve respect.Ideas DO NOT !!! (neither do Corporations(bad humor))
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29-01-2011, 04:19 PM
RE: Tolerance is over rated
My apologies at beating a dead thread, but I was not a member when this discussion took place, and I didn't see a post that reflected my own view on the subject.
I definitely take a stance opposite Mr. West's POV. I believe those bumper stickers are as American you can get. Why? Because "Co-Exist" is simply the most concise way to state the ideas behind the first amendment, is it not? And what is more American than the Declaration, Constitution and Bill of Rights?
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29-01-2011, 07:49 PM
RE: Tolerance is over rated
I agree.

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
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02-02-2011, 05:05 PM
 
RE: Tolerance is over rated
First - magnet's statement about the american way ™ annoys me on several levels. Mostly as it implies the sort of inherrent difference between peoples that i'm about to argue against.

to be tolerance is a trap. the very idea that tolerance is a virtue strikes me as wrong. A moral person should not need to be tolerant of anyone because, prior to knowledge of that person's actions, a moral person views all other people as the same. Tolerance is the idea that another person is more vulgar than your or more foolish than you, less than you in some way and that you must tolerate that flaw in order to treat them equally.

To a moral person the only things that differentiate one person from another are their actions and abilities, and you should absolutely be responsible for your actions and rewarded acording to your merits.
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02-02-2011, 06:57 PM
RE: Tolerance is over rated
(02-02-2011 05:05 PM)DoE Wrote:  First - magnet's statement about the american way ™ annoys me on several levels. Mostly as it implies the sort of inherrent difference between peoples that i'm about to argue against.

to be tolerance is a trap. the very idea that tolerance is a virtue strikes me as wrong. A moral person should not need to be tolerant of anyone because, prior to knowledge of that person's actions, a moral person views all other people as the same. Tolerance is the idea that another person is more vulgar than your or more foolish than you, less than you in some way and that you must tolerate that flaw in order to treat them equally.

To a moral person the only things that differentiate one person from another are their actions and abilities, and you should absolutely be responsible for your actions and rewarded acording to your merits.
You seem to be attacking a point I never made. I was arguing for tolerance for the BELIEFS of others, specifically in a religious context. You are arguing against tolerating the ACTIONS of others (and abilities, I will note, though I don't understand why that is included). I don't find anything wrong with the beliefs of the average human being. You may be thinking of the wrong doing of individual or groups of extremists, and of course they should be punished. Those. That stone women to death ought to meet their just rewards. Rupert Murdoch should be charged with some form of terrorism or propaganda spreading. But there is no reason we should punish or stigmatize SENSIBLE decent people just because it comforts them to have an imaginary friend. That makes turns you into just another whacko, just on the other side of the issue. And no, ahead of time, I'm not attacking you, I'm clarifying my position. I do not come here to fight with like-minded people.
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03-02-2011, 01:26 AM
 
RE: Tolerance is over rated
oh no. My appologies. My mention of you in the first paragraph pertains only to the first paragraph. the following paragraphs are my response to the thread topic in general
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03-02-2011, 09:25 AM
RE: Tolerance is over rated
(03-02-2011 01:26 AM)DoE Wrote:  oh no. My appologies. My mention of you in the first paragraph pertains only to the first paragraph. the following paragraphs are my response to the thread topic in general
Gotcha. I do also want to state that my use of the "American Way" idea was mostly sarcastic. I grew up learning that crap but the older I get, the more it seems that freedom is wasted on a bloated, overconsuming public whose waistline is only shadowed by its ignorance,egotism, arrogance and slovenliness. This is a vast generalization of course, but it just seems to me that the more righties people vote in, the more it seems like they are voting their freedoms away, and "damn proud of it, by gawd!" :-)

Something something something Dark Side
Something something something complete
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03-02-2011, 12:28 PM
RE: Tolerance is over rated
I live in Canada in southern Ontario, right on the fringe of Toronto, which is easily one of the most multicultural cities in the world. I have no issues with other people be it race or creed and nobody else is really stirring shit. We all get along.

That is all I have to say.

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