Tom Short
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17-12-2014, 12:27 PM
RE: Tom Short
(16-12-2014 10:46 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(16-12-2014 04:46 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  tl;dr version of what he believes/preaches?

Near as I can tell, he's a perpetual No True Scotsman, as whenever we get critical of something and he get cornered he goes all "that's not MY Christianity, they're not TRUE Christians!"

Rinse and repeat.

He also likes to "interpret" every word in the bible to match his world view.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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17-12-2014, 03:09 PM
RE: Tom Short
No the issue here is I've given my interpretation and:

"...The citation I'm looking for is one that shows this to be a correct interpretation - or at least shows some strong evidence supporting this as a correct interpretation. Because it looks suspiciously to me like you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole."

is of no value to me OR to you. If I find ten Ph.D's who sign letters that I print here saying my interpretation is possible in the Greek and context both what will that do for you? You already in this thread agreed that conservatives will say there is no contradiction and liberal scholars will say there is a contradiction. So I think we're done.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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17-12-2014, 04:20 PM
RE: Tom Short
(17-12-2014 03:09 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  No the issue here is I've given my interpretation and:

"...The citation I'm looking for is one that shows this to be a correct interpretation - or at least shows some strong evidence supporting this as a correct interpretation. Because it looks suspiciously to me like you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole."

is of no value to me OR to you. If I find ten Ph.D's who sign letters that I print here saying my interpretation is possible in the Greek and context both what will that do for you? You already in this thread agreed that conservatives will say there is no contradiction and liberal scholars will say there is a contradiction. So I think we're done.

I certainly did not agree to that. More dishonesty. Dodgy You brought up the conservatives and liberals in the context of every one that you have talked with NOT "every". My reply was "No big surprise" NOT that I agree with your remark. I meant it's no big surprise that either 1) the ones that you talked with are consistent with your viewpoint or 2) you would make that claim when I have no possible way to refute it because I wasn't part of the conversations with these scholars that you referred to. This took place here at the bottom.

If you want to be done with this, that's up to you. But you don't get to guess at why I want to know and then use that as an established conclusion. The reason I want a citation is so I can review the source myself and see if I agree with you that it says/supports what you claim it says/supports.

Now you've spent your last 4 replies pussy footing around coming up with a citation. Quit wasting my time. Do you or don't you have a citation? If you do, then please provide it in your next reply.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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22-12-2014, 01:27 PM
RE: Tom Short
We are being silly over semantics, both of us. Your thoughts on the passages are not the first time I've heard the "contradiction" of "imminency". There are hundreds of pages online with apologists taking this contradiction to task. Are you seeking a citation on the language itself? Here's an intriguing look at the phrasing of the verse in Greek:

https://precepts.wordpress.com/2007/08/1...ste-death/

Thanks.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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22-12-2014, 01:58 PM
RE: Tom Short
Thanks for the article. It did a good job at dispelling your claim that the transfiguration may have been Jesus coming in his kingdom.

I hadn't heard the bit about the Greek word "an" before. Although the article eventually dismissed it, I nevertheless found it interesting because it does point out the dangers of translations.

I find the author's final paragraphs to be a desperate attempt to make things fit where they don't. "Starting to come" is not the same as "coming". He also goes from explaining - actually arguing for - how "kingdom" means god's government, but then he switches in the second to last paragraph to "they saw the Son of Man coming into His governmental power". Why "governmental power" instead of "government"? Because, he is trying to claim Pentecost as the event where this occurred and "government" doesn't fit. Clearly.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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22-12-2014, 02:52 PM
RE: Tom Short
(22-12-2014 01:58 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Thanks for the article. It did a good job at dispelling your claim that the transfiguration may have been Jesus coming in his kingdom.

I hadn't heard the bit about the Greek word "an" before. Although the article eventually dismissed it, I nevertheless found it interesting because it does point out the dangers of translations.

I find the author's final paragraphs to be a desperate attempt to make things fit where they don't. "Starting to come" is not the same as "coming". He also goes from explaining - actually arguing for - how "kingdom" means god's government, but then he switches in the second to last paragraph to "they saw the Son of Man coming into His governmental power". Why "governmental power" instead of "government"? Because, he is trying to claim Pentecost as the event where this occurred and "government" doesn't fit. Clearly.

I think Q owes me about $50 for my time reading that bilge. All he does is apply which interpretation of whichever word he chooses to back up his own beliefs. This is a con man's game, it is Q's Raison d'ĂȘtre.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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22-12-2014, 05:35 PM
RE: Tom Short
(22-12-2014 02:52 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I think Q owes me about $50 for my time reading that bilge. All he does is apply which interpretation of whichever word he chooses to back up his own beliefs. This is a con man's game, it is Q's Raison d'ĂȘtre.

Lol, it doesn't even support what it was supposed to. This was what I asked for (bold = tl;dr version):

(16-12-2014 12:48 PM)Impulse Wrote:  The citation I'm looking for is not the verses from the three synoptic gospels. Yes, I can find those. But you are claiming that the transfiguration and the accompanying hoopla mentioned in the next verses (for example, in Matthew it's verses 17:1-2) is what Jesus meant in Matthew 16:28 by "coming in his kingdom". The citation I'm looking for is one that shows this to be a correct interpretation - or at least shows some strong evidence supporting this as a correct interpretation.

But his article dismisses the transfiguration as what Jesus meant. It doesn't even argue an alternative interpretation of "coming in his kingdom", but instead argues for "starting to come in his kingdom's power".

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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07-01-2015, 02:11 PM
RE: Tom Short
Though the article makes a theological stance(s) that I don't hold to, I was referring to it to point out some of the difficulties inherent in making assumptions from the English without also looking at the Greek, too.

The "coming kingdom" bit is mentioned thrice in the NT, and thrice it is immediately followed by the transfiguration. I've always seen that as the logical context. SOME of you (disciples) will not die (understatement, it was immediate) before you see God's Kingdom. If you want a not-immediate fulfillment, the three who went to the transfiguration, Peter, James and John, all prophesied specifically writing/dictating Bible books as well.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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08-01-2015, 12:28 PM
RE: Tom Short
So you were supposed to be providing a citation supporting your claim that the transfiguration is what Jesus meant in Matthew 16:28 by "coming in his kingdom" and now you say the citation you gave was only to point out difficulties in making assumptions from English without looking at the Greek. So again, you have avoided providing the citation; followed by again making the same unsubstantiated claim. After all this, it certainly appears to me that you don't have a citation and you're just pulling this out of your ass.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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