Tomi Lahren Admits She Benefits From Obamacare, Still Wants To Nix It
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01-08-2017, 06:21 AM
RE: Tomi Lahren Admits She Benefits From Obamacare, Still Wants To Nix It
(31-07-2017 11:22 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(31-07-2017 09:07 PM)Hitcher70 Wrote:  I thought I made it clear that the basis of limits is established in the US Constitution.

I went back and re-read yes it's clear enough. I agree in principle. Money should be collected and spent no more and no less than as dictated by the constitution. The problem is in practice; it's difficult to determine the exact starting point where justified spending ends and what you call "stealing" begins. And I believe we would be in the same ballpark on a lot of sample expenditures- proper reliable equipment for the troops, check, a free car for everyone, no. These two examples fall specifically in and not-in the constitution. But do you believe honest people can disagree about a grey area in the middle? We elect reps to determine the spending in the grey area (and yes they mostly fuck it up), I just can't accept that Hitcher70 or jerrymcmasters or any other individual has it pegged precisely where spending for "provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States" begins and ends.

And we can feel free to disagree on whether or not healthcare is a right that should have it's cost absorbed by taxation.
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01-08-2017, 06:23 AM
RE: Tomi Lahren Admits She Benefits From Obamacare, Still Wants To Nix It
(31-07-2017 11:28 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(31-07-2017 08:40 PM)Hitcher70 Wrote:  It's not remotely feasible to think the taxpayers should carry the burden of every healthcare need of every citizen.

But it's okay to expect them to forfeit trillions of dollars that could be remarkably effective to that degree, in order to fund a military complex that kills innocent civilians on a mass scale? Consider


No. It isn't. WTF does that have to do with what I said?
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01-08-2017, 06:30 AM
RE: Tomi Lahren Admits She Benefits From Obamacare, Still Wants To Nix It
(01-08-2017 05:07 AM)Ace Wrote:  
(31-07-2017 07:27 PM)Hitcher70 Wrote:  Additionally, the ACA is a failure as a solution for the problems regarding cost and access for healthcare. I'd prefer they just leave the ACA alone to die it's eventual death as costs continue to rise along with premiums. All while coverage and access dwindles.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4571845/
http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2016/07/21...you-think/
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion...83904.html

Allow for a public option and the govt to negotiate lower prices and healthcare costs will drop
And health issuance companies spend 80% of their premiums on providing care only because the ACA mandates them to spend at least that much, before they spent far less




https://www.commondreams.org/news/2017/0...llion-2010
CEO's of the 70 largest Healthcare companies pulled in nearly $10 billion for their collective salary in over 7 years even with the 80/20 rule from the ACA..... in other words healthcare companies are raising prices because they are greedy otherwise if prices were rising because costs were actually rising these CEO's wouldn't be making so much money.

Also the idea that taxes are theft is patently ludacrous, throughout history there has NEVER been a civilized society that has managed to last long that didn't have some form of collectively shared burden forced on its citizens.

All of which ignores that premiums are rising, reimbursement is dropping, incentive to be a provider is disappearing and the costs will all still fall on the few to pay for the many.

CEO's are making more because costs are rising. You do realize that 10% of 100 is more than 10% of 10...right?

The idea that taxes are theft is not "ludacrous". There are limits. It's been discussed. Maybe this will help you see things differently.
https://www.libertarianism.org/columns/i...tion-theft
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01-08-2017, 06:48 AM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2017 08:59 AM by Vera.)
RE: Tomi Lahren Admits She Benefits From Obamacare, Still Wants To Nix It
(01-08-2017 01:03 AM)epronovost Wrote:  http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.10...33.9921573

"Each group composed of 12 boys and 12 girls."

Um, right.

Quote:This one is relatively good as it provides a good methodological framework and a pretty nuanced conclusion (not establishing a clear correlation between beauty and intelligence) on the entire issue that struck me as sound.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...9604000352

I can only read the abstract and unless they really "prove" what they claim (The conclusion that beautiful people are more intelligent follows from four assumptions. (1) Men who are more intelligent are more likely to attain higher status than men who are less intelligent. (2) Higher-status men are more likely to mate with more beautiful women than lower-status men. (3) Intelligence is heritable. (4) Beauty is heritable. If all four assumptions are empirically true, then the conclusion that beautiful people are more intelligent is logically true, making it a proven theorem.), no, does not strike me as *sound* in the least bit


Quote:This study also support the idea of a link between intelligence and beauty, but attribute it to more than the halo effect and more strongly with on general health and overwhelmingly positive socialisation.

So, at best an effect. Due to various reasons.

Quote:In all cases, IQ and academic success were used to qualify and quantify intelligence (despite their weaknesses as intelligence is of course known to be more fluid than that). Beauty was always assessed by a panel of judge of both sex. The link between intelligence and beauty is always relatively small and isn't necessarily real as it might very well be explained by the halo effect, but some tend to think there might be other factor in addition that gives a certain credibility to that link.

Bolding mine. So no, some tend to think is nowhere near enough to even begin to support a claim that beautiful people (which we are still to define) are more intelligent than "normal"-looking (ditto on the explanation) ones.

Quote:Does that help a bit?

Help implies I'm struggling with understanding the claim. That is not the problem. Even though, arguably, I might be too ugly to understand it. Rolleyes

And no, those are extremely limited studies (less than 25 people, really?) and we still do not have clearly defined criteria of either beauty or intelligence.


So far only thing I've found that makes some sort of sense is that body symmetry (a part of beauty) has a close relationship to health and health - to intelligence. And that still does not prove anything.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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01-08-2017, 07:19 AM
RE: Tomi Lahren Admits She Benefits From Obamacare, Still Wants To Nix It
(31-07-2017 05:19 PM)BnW Wrote:  Who is Tomi Lahren? And, why does anyone care what a 24 year old girl with no life experience has to say?

Exactly my thoughts; I had to Google her name to find out who she was, as she's completely unknown outside of American borders. I discovered that she's a 24-year-old blonde bimbette, a Trump-supporting, conservative political commentator, political "operative", and former television host.

Some suggest that as an inexperienced 21-year-old she was given her first TV show On Point With Tomi Lahren by One America News Network CEO Robert Herring solely because she told him she "would literally do whatever" to land the gig. One wonders LOL.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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01-08-2017, 08:37 AM
RE: Tomi Lahren Admits She Benefits From Obamacare, Still Wants To Nix It
(01-08-2017 06:30 AM)Hitcher70 Wrote:  
(01-08-2017 05:07 AM)Ace Wrote:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4571845/
http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2016/07/21...you-think/
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion...83904.html

Allow for a public option and the govt to negotiate lower prices and healthcare costs will drop
And health issuance companies spend 80% of their premiums on providing care only because the ACA mandates them to spend at least that much, before they spent far less




https://www.commondreams.org/news/2017/0...llion-2010
CEO's of the 70 largest Healthcare companies pulled in nearly $10 billion for their collective salary in over 7 years even with the 80/20 rule from the ACA..... in other words healthcare companies are raising prices because they are greedy otherwise if prices were rising because costs were actually rising these CEO's wouldn't be making so much money.

Also the idea that taxes are theft is patently ludacrous, throughout history there has NEVER been a civilized society that has managed to last long that didn't have some form of collectively shared burden forced on its citizens.

All of which ignores that premiums are rising, reimbursement is dropping, incentive to be a provider is disappearing and the costs will all still fall on the few to pay for the many.

CEO's are making more because costs are rising. You do realize that 10% of 100 is more than 10% of 10...right?

The idea that taxes are theft is not "ludacrous". There are limits. It's been discussed. Maybe this will help you see things differently.
https://www.libertarianism.org/columns/i...tion-theft
oh really? then why were epipens which costs less than $100 to manufacture get their prices increased to over $500 when the cost of making it stayed the same?
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/...ol-n633071

which costs are rising? be very specific

And answer me this.. should people die or go bankrupt because they can't afford healthcare?
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the link you posted is at best one giant page of "I don't wanna pay because I don't wanna" it has presented no alternative to financing anything

so if there is no taxation then how will the govt pay for police, courts, postal service, armed forces, education, healthcare, low cost housing, poverty alleviation, subsidies, infrastructure etc?

If you wanna live in a civilized society then your gonna have to share the same cost and burden of maintaining all of it as everyone else.

The more one asserts their own unquestioned preconceived beliefs, the more demanding I will be for empirical evidence for I will accept nothing else in place of it
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01-08-2017, 08:57 AM
RE: Tomi Lahren Admits She Benefits From Obamacare, Still Wants To Nix It
(01-08-2017 08:37 AM)Ace Wrote:  If you wanna live in a civilized society then your gonna have to share the same cost and burden of maintaining all of it as everyone else.

I suspect our merry friend is one of those anarchist types who thinks that magic and fairy dust will suffice to keep the world running in a capitalist utopia where no one pays taxes, everyone is prosperous and crime is unknown.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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01-08-2017, 09:39 AM
RE: Tomi Lahren Admits She Benefits From Obamacare, Still Wants To Nix It
(01-08-2017 08:37 AM)Ace Wrote:  
(01-08-2017 06:30 AM)Hitcher70 Wrote:  All of which ignores that premiums are rising, reimbursement is dropping, incentive to be a provider is disappearing and the costs will all still fall on the few to pay for the many.

CEO's are making more because costs are rising. You do realize that 10% of 100 is more than 10% of 10...right?

The idea that taxes are theft is not "ludacrous". There are limits. It's been discussed. Maybe this will help you see things differently.
https://www.libertarianism.org/columns/i...tion-theft
oh really? then why were epipens which costs less than $100 to manufacture get their prices increased to over $500 when the cost of making it stayed the same?
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/...ol-n633071

which costs are rising? be very specific

And answer me this.. should people die or go bankrupt because they can't afford healthcare?

I'm not sure how your question does anything except loosely demonstrate my point. As for why epipens went up it was because a greedy man knew he had the market cornered and patent laws allowed him to do it. Once the free market was allowed to work...prices came down.

The costs that are rising is the total cost of providing care. Increased access has significantly increased the number of people going to the doctor. Taxpayers pay a large part of that increase. Additionally, since it's at a reduced reimbursement, the cost in terms of labor has increased.

Yes, some people should die or go bankrupt. Some. Not very many. And not very many would if the free market was allowed to work as it once did.

Quote:the link you posted is at best one giant page of "I don't wanna pay because I don't wanna" it has presented no alternative to financing anything

so if there is no taxation then how will the govt pay for police, courts, postal service, armed forces, education, healthcare, low cost housing, poverty alleviation, subsidies, infrastructure etc?

If you wanna live in a civilized society then your gonna have to share the same cost and burden of maintaining all of it as everyone else.

No, it wasn't one giant page of that. Read it again.

Why are you presenting this strawman of "no taxation". I never said anything of the sort. I'm talking about limits on what taxpayers should be asked to fund. Have you not been following along in this thread?

I'm amazed at how quickly people want to paint it as greed to want to hold onto the money one has earned but for it to not be greedy to take someone else's money.

And we don't all share the same cost and burden of maintaining all of it as everyone else. We share significantly different costs. Many of which we agree upon, as laid out in the COTUS. What you want to do is support a failing system in which some bear the cost and burden of maintaining everything. I still fail to see where free healthcare is a right for some citizens at the expense of others. With heath insurance now being a "mandate" and considered a "tax" it seems that I'm not only paying for others to participate in a failing system but I must also be forced by the government to obtain my own insurance, paid for by me, and recognize that as a tax.

As I said before, the disincentive is pretty clear to participate in society and contribute. It makes more sense to sit at home and collect my "rights" of free food, free housing, free healthcare, free phone, etc...
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01-08-2017, 10:04 AM
RE: Tomi Lahren Admits She Benefits From Obamacare, Still Wants To Nix It
(31-07-2017 05:19 PM)BnW Wrote:  Who is Tomi Lahren? And, why does anyone care what a 24 year old girl with no life experience has to say?

What am I missing here?

Trump voters listen to her. She's another cog in the republican propaganda machine. Taking down that machine is important, I would say.

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01-08-2017, 10:20 AM
RE: Tomi Lahren Admits She Benefits From Obamacare, Still Wants To Nix It
(31-07-2017 09:07 PM)Hitcher70 Wrote:  I thought I made it clear that the basis of limits is established in the US Constitution.

The Constitution was written by a bunch of old white dudes who liked to get drunk and dress up in wigs and prance about in women's clothes while designing their social experiments. The idea that it should somehow be revered is pretty strange. Might as well go with the Bible if your looking for something to worship

#sigh
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