Top US Diplomats Abandoning Trump
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27-01-2017, 09:18 AM (This post was last modified: 27-01-2017 09:26 AM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: Top US Diplomats Abandoning Trump
(27-01-2017 06:29 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(26-01-2017 11:29 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  He's draining the swamp of career federal employees in leadership positions that suck at their job.

Career federal employees are not replaced with each new administration. That's what a career civil servant as opposed to a political appointee means. We don't submit our resignations just because there's a new administration. The president can't just fire us willy nilly without cause. We have far more protections against that than those in the private sector. The Secret Service agent who said she'd rather go to jail than take a bullet for Trump for example will keep her job. It's not cause for termination. It's not even cause for reprimand or any form of retaliation. And good luck doing my job. Not only could you not code your way out of a paper bag you don't even have a clue what that means. You are not qualified to comment on any one of these fine people's ability to do their job. Just as you are not qualified to comment on mine.

“These positions are political appointments, and require the President to nominate and the Senate to confirm them in these roles. They are not career appointments but of limited term. Of the officers whose resignations were accepted, some will continue in the Foreign Service in other positions, and others will retire by choice or because they have exceeded the time limits of their grade in service.”

I know the difference. That's why I wrote "in leadership positions." Only the appointed leadership have the tradition of submitting a letter of resignation with each new administration. It would be ridiculous if every government employee had to do that. You're looking for an argument when there is none.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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27-01-2017, 09:24 AM (This post was last modified: 27-01-2017 09:28 AM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: Top US Diplomats Abandoning Trump
(27-01-2017 07:54 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(26-01-2017 08:25 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Thread title is false.

They were asked to leave. Fired.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/26/politics/t...index.html

I'm calling bullshit.
Here's how I think it went. They submitted their letters of resignation. Trump's ego couldn't take all 4 quitting like that. And so it's been spun as tradition and that he accepted their letters.

From your link:
Quote:"Any implication that that these four people quit is wrong," one senior State Department official said. "These people are loyal to the secretary, the President and to the State Department. There is just not any attempt here to dis the President. People are not quitting and running away in disgust. This is the White House cleaning house."
Must stress large inauguration crowds... must stress he would have won the popular vote if "illegals" hadn't voted... must stress that these 4 aren't quitting...

All 3 are lies. Drinking Beverage

Your theory makes no sense when they were supposed to submit a letter of resignation with a new administration. It's not being "spun" as tradition, it IS tradition.

The words you quoted are in fact the truth. Any implication that they quit is WRONG.

It says specifically the White House is cleaning house. Anyone they believe will not be fully on board with their agenda will have their letter of resignation accepted. Which is pretty much the same as being fired.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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27-01-2017, 09:37 AM
RE: Top US Diplomats Abandoning Trump
(26-01-2017 08:37 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(26-01-2017 08:29 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  "were sent letters by the White House that their service was no longer required"
In response to their traditionally-mandated letters of resignation. If Trump wants to cast accepting a resignation as a "firing" for purposes of appearance, that's fine, but it doesn't make it a firing. If I quit, my boss can't fire me because I no longer work for him. Sorry, I beat him to it :-)

Wasn't he using the same tactic with the snub by Mexico's President. It looks like everything in this administration must be conducted to sate the dear leader's ego. We should trade him in for Kim Jong Un - Kim has a nicer hairstyle.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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27-01-2017, 10:09 AM
RE: Top US Diplomats Abandoning Trump
(27-01-2017 09:24 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(27-01-2017 07:54 AM)Impulse Wrote:  I'm calling bullshit.
Here's how I think it went. They submitted their letters of resignation. Trump's ego couldn't take all 4 quitting like that. And so it's been spun as tradition and that he accepted their letters.

From your link:
Must stress large inauguration crowds... must stress he would have won the popular vote if "illegals" hadn't voted... must stress that these 4 aren't quitting...

All 3 are lies. Drinking Beverage

Your theory makes no sense when they were supposed to submit a letter of resignation with a new administration. It's not being "spun" as tradition, it IS tradition.

The words you quoted are in fact the truth. Any implication that they quit is WRONG.

It says specifically the White House is cleaning house. Anyone they believe will not be fully on board with their agenda will have their letter of resignation accepted. Which is pretty much the same as being fired.

I see. So, in other words, it says it so it must be true. Drinking Beverage

How do you suppose people in these positions CHOOSE to quit? Consider (Hint: They submit a letter of resignation.)
It doesn't matter if that letter is also required; that's no proof that what the administration is claiming is the way it actually happened. Maybe their letters said something like, "I hereby resign and fully intend to vacate my position regardless of whether this administration still wants me to continue my duties." Trump can't make them stay.

Why do you suppose it's so important to the administration to convince the public these 4 didn't quit? Who cares if they chose to quit? It's no secret that Trump is controversial and convincing the public they were really fired does nothing to change the controversy either. It's all about ego.

But, even if you happen to be right that these 4 didn't really want to leave their positions, it only makes Trump an idiot for leaving too few with any experience and doing so right now with no immediate replacements.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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27-01-2017, 10:25 AM
RE: Top US Diplomats Abandoning Trump
(26-01-2017 11:29 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(26-01-2017 11:20 PM)morondog Wrote:  So Trump's an arsehole and you just proved it Smile

He's draining the swamp of career federal employees in leadership positions that suck at their job.
By all accounts these particular employees didn't suck and were in fact highly competent and experienced. You can't do a systematic performance review with an eye to retaining people with deep experience and expertise and eliminating actual deadweight, in the short time since the election. It's all for show.

After all he has to do something to distract from the fact that he's filling the swamp right back up with inexperienced people who don't even know how to do their jobs, most notably DeVoss, Perry and Carson, or who are zombie idealogues, or who are wealthy corporatists with huge conflicts of interest.
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27-01-2017, 10:36 AM
RE: Top US Diplomats Abandoning Trump
(27-01-2017 10:25 AM)mordant Wrote:  
(26-01-2017 11:29 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  He's draining the swamp of career federal employees in leadership positions that suck at their job.
By all accounts these particular employees didn't suck and were in fact highly competent and experienced. You can't do a systematic performance review with an eye to retaining people with deep experience and expertise and eliminating actual deadweight, in the short time since the election. It's all for show.

After all he has to do something to distract from the fact that he's filling the swamp right back up with inexperienced people who don't even know how to do their jobs, most notably DeVoss, Perry and Carson, or who are zombie idealogues, or who are wealthy corporatists with huge conflicts of interest.

Or it could be that they have been identified as Obama/Hillary/Democrat loyalists (like the former CIA director and Border Patrol chief) due to prior public comments and actions and have been pointed out to Trump by his staff.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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27-01-2017, 10:40 AM
RE: Top US Diplomats Abandoning Trump
(27-01-2017 10:36 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Or it could be that they have been identified as Obama/Hillary/Democrat loyalists (like the former CIA director and Border Patrol chief) due to prior public comments and actions and have been pointed out to Trump by his staff.
Could well be, given that for instance he also wants scientific studies to be run past political hacks for filtering and approval before any government agency releases them. But such actions are the actions of an idealogue, not those of a rational actor.

My point remains: even if for the sake of argument he's draining the swamp in one place, he's definitely filling it right back up in others.
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27-01-2017, 10:46 AM
RE: Top US Diplomats Abandoning Trump
(26-01-2017 07:39 PM)ShadowProject Wrote:  
(26-01-2017 07:33 PM)unfogged Wrote:  The downside is that it creates more high-level vacancies that Dumpster can fill immediately with unqualified stooges and lackeys.

I nominate Kanye West for diplomat to Mars.

Who should we appoint to Uranus? Smartass
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27-01-2017, 10:58 AM
RE: Top US Diplomats Abandoning Trump
(27-01-2017 10:40 AM)mordant Wrote:  ... he also wants scientific studies to be run past political hacks for filtering and approval before any government agency releases them. But such actions are the actions of an idealogue, not those of a rational actor.

We had a similar situation here in Canada under our previous Prime Minister, Stephen Harper.

He sent out diktats to scientists involved in government research to cut off their ability to speak to the media, and that all their research had to pass through a political vetting process. Source: The issues around muzzling government scientists

From the article:
"In the past, journalists were generally able to contact scientists directly for interviews, but after these new directives they had to go through government communications officers.

And scientists had to get pre-approval from their minister's office before speaking to members of national or international media, a process that can involve drafting potential questions and answers, which are then scrutinized by a team before the green light is given."

Harper and his Conservative party was voted out in October 2015; Harper himself resigned his seat in Parliament in August 2016.

The current PM, Justin Trudeau, scuttled Harper's diktat and now scientists are free to speak to the media and publish without government interference. Source: Federal scientists eager to share their research now that muzzles are off

Trump won't be in office forever. When the Dems take the WH in 2020 I have little doubt that DJT's diktats will be reversed, just like Harper's were in Canada.
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27-01-2017, 11:02 AM
RE: Top US Diplomats Abandoning Trump
Alt fact: job experience and competence is a bad thing.

"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu."

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