Tottenham Riots
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08-08-2011, 08:45 PM
RE: Tottenham Riots
Also i want to make it clear i am in no way supporting the thugs that are rioting. My post was in answer to what james said about the protest that happened before it kicked off.

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09-08-2011, 07:24 AM
RE: Tottenham Riots
Apparently there is some doubt about if he actualy shot at the police although the results arn't final yet. (Does not justify rioting either way) There is the story and a timeline of events leading up to the riot here http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07...ndon-burns

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09-08-2011, 10:04 AM
RE: Tottenham Riots
I can't help but notice that riots like these always happen in summertime. the same as in Paris in 2008 and Brussels in 1010. As soon as it starts to rain, they go back to mommy...

I think the water cannon suffices to stop the heat in these cowards. A well placed jet of powerful ice cold water (8 bar) . Humane, efficient and humiliating.

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09-08-2011, 11:18 AM
RE: Tottenham Riots
Seems to be a whole lot of people showing up to help clean up the destruction caused by the rioters.
If I lived there I would help too, and not to take away from the good that these people are doing but I can't help and wonder what destruction might have been averted had all of these same people been handy at the beginning of the riots to say enough is enough.
Of course I understand that no one wants to get involved if their own personal safety is at risk, but I would imagine a strong showing of their masses might have deterred any further damage and hopefully violence. Maybe not.
I thought the same thing when the riot happened in Vancouver a while back, I don't live there either but I knew there would be a riot. Whether the Canucks won or not, there would have been a riot. The mass of people all gathered together, most of whom were not fans but bandwagon jumpers just looking to be a part of a large group. The majority of the people who were rioting then had definitely not gone to watch the game.
Then all the support from the locals afterwards. It was a great thing, but the cynic in me I guess couldn't help but wonder where those people were while their city was burning down. I don't know if it's just fear of being hurt, or if it's the fear that they would be the only ones standing against the tide.
Either way, I really don't want to be taking away from how much these people are helping a community in need. It's truly a wonderful thing, and I wish them the best.

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09-08-2011, 01:51 PM
RE: Tottenham Riots
This may seem dumb but,

'A person is smart; people are dumb stupid panicky animals' - Agent K Men in Black.

I generally avoid crowds for that reason... sometimes I wish there was a way to simply remove our reptilian ancestors aggression... it's no longer needed.

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09-08-2011, 01:58 PM
RE: Tottenham Riots
I think these riots are much more than anger over one shooting. They are the results of years of pent-up anger towards the fascist-like state that Britain has become. When a country's people get so worked up over such a (relatively) small incident, then there must be larger issues lurking beneath the surface.

For instance, how are these rioters able to riot for so long? Most of them must be unemployed, otherwise they'd be at work, not rioting. Why are there so many unemployed citizens with the free time to riot? Why is the country not working on programs to employ its citizens? Questions like these need to be addressed before fingers start getting pointed at either the citizens or the police.

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09-08-2011, 02:16 PM
RE: Tottenham Riots
(09-08-2011 01:58 PM)SecularStudent Wrote:  I think these riots are much more than anger over one shooting. They are the results of years of pent-up anger towards the fascist-like state that Britain has become. When a country's people get so worked up over such a (relatively) small incident, then there must be larger issues lurking beneath the surface.

For instance, how are these rioters able to riot for so long? Most of them must be unemployed, otherwise they'd be at work, not rioting. Why are there so many unemployed citizens with the free time to riot? Why is the country not working on programs to employ its citizens? Questions like these need to be addressed before fingers start getting pointed at either the citizens or the police.

Britain may be flawed. Every institution in Britain might be flawed. But I from what I have seen of other countries it is a pretty darn tolerant place to live. May be not as tolerant as I would like. But if you want to see a fascist state try Iran, Saudi Arabia or my mother-in-laws house in Poland.
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09-08-2011, 02:40 PM
RE: Tottenham Riots
(09-08-2011 02:16 PM)angry_liberal Wrote:  
(09-08-2011 01:58 PM)SecularStudent Wrote:  I think these riots are much more than anger over one shooting. They are the results of years of pent-up anger towards the fascist-like state that Britain has become. When a country's people get so worked up over such a (relatively) small incident, then there must be larger issues lurking beneath the surface.

For instance, how are these rioters able to riot for so long? Most of them must be unemployed, otherwise they'd be at work, not rioting. Why are there so many unemployed citizens with the free time to riot? Why is the country not working on programs to employ its citizens? Questions like these need to be addressed before fingers start getting pointed at either the citizens or the police.

Britain may be flawed. Every institution in Britain might be flawed. But I from what I have seen of other countries it is a pretty darn tolerant place to live. May be not as tolerant as I would like. But if you want to see a fascist state try Iran, Saudi Arabia or my mother-in-laws house in Poland.

Please look at my post more closely. I said "fascist-like". Obviously it is not as bad as other countries are. But it worries me that fascist parties are quickly growing in popularity over there. Yet, if you think that my wording was too harsh, then I'm sorry. I'll try to be more diplomatic in the future.

However, the intention of my post was simply to point out possible underlying issues that may be causing such an over-reaction in the people. There is no need to go on the defensive. I did not say anything about tolerance in my post. Where did you get the assumption that that's what I was talking about? I was talking about the anger that British citizens seem to have for its police, as demonstrated by some of the other posts in this thread. Police brutality (perceived or real) is usually a sign that a country is on its way to becoming fascist.

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09-08-2011, 02:42 PM
RE: Tottenham Riots
Quote:I think the water cannon suffices to stop the heat in these cowards. A well placed jet of powerful ice cold water (8 bar) . Humane, efficient and humiliating.

We don't have water cannons, for some reason they are considered too extreme over here.

Quote:I think these riots are much more than anger over one shooting. They are the results of years of pent-up anger towards the fascist-like state that Britain has become. When a country's people get so worked up over such a (relatively) small incident, then there must be larger issues lurking beneath the surface.

For instance, how are these rioters able to riot for so long? Most of them must be unemployed, otherwise they'd be at work, not rioting. Why are there so many unemployed citizens with the free time to riot? Why is the country not working on programs to employ its citizens? Questions like these need to be addressed before fingers start getting pointed at either the citizens or the police.

These reason that these people are rioting is simply that they enjoy it and they know that the police are far too scared to take any real action.

The police lose out in this situation either way. If they act then they are being too heavy handed and even racist but if they don't act then they are being ineffective, they can't win.

It says something about the weak attitude of our country that standard procedures from other countries (such as water cannons and rubber bullets) are considered far too extreme here and aren't available for use. As a country we need to stop worrying about the perpetrators of crime and start thinking about the victims.

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09-08-2011, 02:52 PM
RE: Tottenham Riots
(09-08-2011 02:40 PM)SecularStudent Wrote:  But it worries me that fascist parties are quickly growing in popularity over there.
Fascist parties are growing all over Europe. In Britain it is feeding on the fact that it is not politically correct to express concerns about Islam. I am very proud of the generally tolerant British attitude but I have to say British people need to discuss religion more robustly without allowing it to degenerate into intolerance. I am very worried about the way things are going but this is a long way from any sort of whiff of fascism. Cameron is very ambivalent on this for me. His "Big Society" sounds very much like "compassionate conservatism" on the other hand he has said good things about "robust liberalism".

(09-08-2011 02:40 PM)SecularStudent Wrote:  Yet, if you think that my wording was too harsh, then I'm sorry. I'll try to be more diplomatic in the future.
Apology accepted. I just assumed you were a Socialist Workers Party hack.

(09-08-2011 02:40 PM)SecularStudent Wrote:  However, the intention of my post was simply to point out possible underlying issues that may be causing such an over-reaction in the people. There is no need to go on the defensive.
Everyone is jumping to conclusions about the causes at the moment. I would like know the causes but I am fairly sure though failings of the state will turn out to be a factor, "fascism" will not.

(09-08-2011 02:40 PM)SecularStudent Wrote:  I did not say anything about tolerance in my post. Where did you get the assumption that that's what I was talking about? I was talking about the anger that British citizens seem to have for its police, as demonstrated by some of the other posts in this thread. Police brutality (perceived or real) is usually a sign that a country is on its way to becoming fascist.
Most of my work colleagues were saying "String 'em up" all day and I was thinking "Now I remember why I don't vote Tory."
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