Poll: is proselytizing ultimately a political activity?
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Tough Questions
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12-09-2011, 02:53 PM (This post was last modified: 13-09-2011 01:59 PM by TrainWreck.)
Tough Questions
Okay, how long has it been since we discussed the Christian proselytizers - got any new stories to add?

I had the most wonderful conversation on the boardwalk with some Christian proselytizers. They claimed to be interested in learning different opinions - trying to disguise their motives in the cloak of secularism. She asked if I believed that world peace would eventually prevail, and I affirmed that I believe it will; and when asked how that would come about, I explained that better knowledge classification would lead the way. Then she asked if I believed in supernatural consciousness; she used the lingo of her denomination and I was keen enough to be able to interpret it correctly, and I let her know that I did not believe in such nonsense. It is amazing how all of these Christians will lie right to my face that they come across many people who think as I do - please.

Anyway, she asked me if I had any hobbies, or such activity, and I replied, "sex." And then, as if she knows everything, she inquired that I must have many children, and I explained to her that my sexual activity is auto-erotic; and I thought she would understand using simple phrases like "by myself," to explain what I was talking about. But she just excused herself by describing us as, ". . . on different channels," and then she, and her accompaniment, walked over to the pavilion to get conversation going with the crack and heroine addicts.

I was left wondering what happened to the interest in different opinions; certainly, atheists are interested in my hobby - aren't you?

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
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13-09-2011, 11:48 AM (This post was last modified: 13-09-2011 01:34 PM by TrainWreck.)
EYES WIDE SHUT
(12-09-2011 03:58 PM)bemore Wrote:  I stopped in a Buddhist Center on a working visit a few months ago a few miles from where from where I live. I was due to stop there for 7 days but I could only manage 3 before I left.
That bad, huh? Good food and a place to sleep, was not compensation enough to prove that you could do it without permitting yourself to believe in a supernatural???

Are these working visits free? Are they going on all the time? Is there a sign-up process? I am interested.

(12-09-2011 03:58 PM)bemore Wrote:  I only went there for the experience......but I was left feeling highly let down because Buddhism at its roots is just another religion much like any other. The difference with Buddhism though is it isnt scared of being hipocritcal.
Who lied to you, Buddhists, atheists, Christians, or the people who write the brochures for the religions?

You should know to go to your local atheist organization for educational materials - they are an educational 503© tax exempt organization - so use them as just as you would use a religion for education, but know that the atheist information is always truth.

(12-09-2011 03:58 PM)bemore Wrote:  You are not supposed to eat meat because of re-incarnation......as in you could possibly kill a family member/friend from a previous life. HOWEVER......if you are offered meat either through charity or you wish not to offend you can eat the meat, as long as you say some extra prayers........the same can be said with anything that goes againt the "rules" of buddhism.......just say some extra prayers.
Sounds like there may be the possibility of a Christian influence on the traditions - why couldn't you recognize that?

It's a real shame that they couldn't claim that vegitarianism is probably a very good diet philosophy, but understand that meats are acceptable, but should probably be limited to some significant events when the slaughter of an animal, free of growth hormones, is affordable???

(12-09-2011 03:58 PM)bemore Wrote:  They have 7 stages towards "heaven" and 7 stages towards "hell" (sound similar)

I think they were glad to see me go TBH caus I was asking some very tough questions of them lol.
Really, like what - "are sugary sodas allowed?" You want to be bold and ask tough questions - ask me. What was your purpose of your interrogation - were you there to experience what it was you thought you were entering, or were you there to prove that you could not be compelled to believe that there was a supernatural dimension of the human experience of reality? We atheists believe that belief in gods can be turned off and on like a switch, in fact, we believe that for most people who deem themselves as religious just turn the switch on one day a week - don't you know how to do that? Can't you have a more open mind and just allow yourself to think differently for just seven days. JESUS CHRIST, dude, you make it sound like they were going to brainwash you against your will and make you submit to Allah for the rest of your life - have spine, would you, experience what life has offered you.

It sounded to me like they were providing you an amusement ride of the mind that took seven days for what ever reasons, but you are just as closed minded and intolerant as a freaking right wing conservative teabagging zealot - what were you afraid of?

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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13-09-2011, 04:36 PM
RE: Tough Questions
Hi trainwreck.

You can read about where I went and the working visits here........

http://www.taracentre.org.uk/working_visits.shtml

Ok firstly let me say that your post seems quite hostile towards the end (or written with passion).........that you are actually jumping to conclusions about me Tongue

I could jump to conclusions about your -23 reputation.........but I wont because I dont know you and I will make my own mind up about people.

You want me to ask you the questions I asked them??? Ok......no problem.

They dont eat meat because of re-incarnation..........however I failed to see how destroying and eating the vehicle (our meat bodies) could in any way be harmfull to the "soul" because in death it has passed on.

I was weeding in the gardens as my work.............I asked that because they see everything as "equal" then who was I to end a plant that we consider "a weed" just for the plesuare of the eye and a "tidy" garden..........it was answered that they dont see plant life as living.....nor conscious (when todays science seems to indicate otherwise)

I questioned the hipocrisy behind buddha......that he says not to drink alcohol yet towards the end of his life he himself apparently did........he was exempt from this rule because he was "enlightened".....So I wanted to know the reasoning behind it.

I asked that even though they believe in everybody being equal.....why was there a religious war in Tibet???

(got some mixed reactions to that one)

TrainWreck I have skimmed the surface of many religions....probably looking more into them than any "normal" person would (although I am no expert) and I visited the center because I thought it would help me in my own personal meditating. What I found was a complete lack of knowledge of what meditation was and its different methods/applications .......and that for the most of time there version of meditating consisted of offering titbits of food, bread and beverages to spirit and singing prayers and songs.

I took part in them.......I wasnt close minded enough to completly disregard them, I have more respect than that.

I left after 3 days because I had seen and experienced everything I felt at the time I needed too.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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13-09-2011, 05:03 PM (This post was last modified: 13-09-2011 06:29 PM by TrainWreck.)
RE: Tough Questions
Well, thank you, for the better description - I would say that you have asked some good questions. You probably are an expert in the field - have you been maintaining documentation of your analysis?

This guy seems to have come up with a decent rebuttal to your reincarnation-vegetarianism problem. (By the way would you classify the problem as being a logic problem or something else?)
Quote:When a person is utterly vegetarian he can easily remember his past lives. His clarity is such that he can look into his past lives. He is not gross, his energy is not blocked, his energy moves easily. His river of consciousness can penetrate to the ancient most times; he can go backwards as much as he wants. The consciousness of a non-vegetarian is blocked -- in many ways. He has been accumulating gross matter in himself. That gross matter functions as a barrier. That's why all the three religions that were born outside India, and have remained non-vegetarian, could not come to the idea of reincarnation. They could not experience it.
http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Therap...tarian.htm

I'll be looking forward to you joining my popularity reputations - I've got more reps then anyone.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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13-09-2011, 06:16 PM
RE: Tough Questions
(13-09-2011 05:03 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  Well, thank you, for the better description - I would say that you have asked some good questions. You probably are an expert in the field - have you been maintaining documentation of your analysis?

I'll be looking forward to you joining my popularity reputations - I've got more reps then anyone.

You wont have to worry about me adding to your negative score........I try to find wisdom in everything I read.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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13-09-2011, 07:16 PM
RE: Tough Questions
I thought Trainwreck had died but on a subconscious level I suppose. I say that because I hadn't really thought about it but when I saw this thread earlier in the day I was like "whoa Trainwreck lives".

Well I'm glad you're alive Trainwreck.

On a side note, I like you Bemore, you haven't been here long but I've liked the things you've had to say thus far and mostly the way you handle yourself. However I have to question the statement I shall put into quotations "I try to find wisdom in everything I read." and boldify. Do you ever find yourself staring at something for so long trying to find wisdom within it that it makes you loopy? You don't know me, but I mean that as a form of satire and not some cutting remarkWink

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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13-09-2011, 08:39 PM
RE: Tough Questions
(13-09-2011 07:16 PM)lucradis Wrote:  I thought Trainwreck had died but on a subconscious level I suppose. I say that because I hadn't really thought about it but when I saw this thread earlier in the day I was like "whoa Trainwreck lives".

Well I'm glad you're alive Trainwreck.

On a side note, I like you Bemore, you haven't been here long but I've liked the things you've had to say thus far and mostly the way you handle yourself. However I have to question the statement I shall put into quotations "I try to find wisdom in everything I read." and boldify. Do you ever find yourself staring at something for so long trying to find wisdom within it that it makes you loopy? You don't know me, but I mean that as a form of satire and not some cutting remarkWink

Thank you for your compliments Lucradis......I am humbled.Blush

Ive let your question float round my head for a while now Lucradis........ive been thinking of ways to approach this and I think there are many different angles I can come from..........Ive been trying for the last 30 minutes to write an answer that encapsulates all of my thoughts, without success ha ha.

Can you give an example.......in the mean time I will give the thought more room and come back to you.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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14-09-2011, 07:33 AM
RE: Tough Questions
Ok I have let the though run round a bit more......it was whilst I was watering my spider plant that the answer came to me Tongue

(Im gonna share some of my life.....I respectfully ask that people dont "pity" me.....nor "apologise" for what I have been through.......thats not the reason im sharing, im just recounting to give some scope)

There has been times in my life when I have tried to see "wisdom" and "sense" in things..........the biggest testing time of this started for me at the end of 1995. I was 15 years old then and in Jan '95 I watched my Dad die of a brain hemorrhage.....then in November '95 I found my Mum dead from an overdose of sleeping tablets.

This shook my world.....turned it upside down as I was now an orphan, getting closer to being "alone" in the world. I desperatley grasped at some resoloution to what I was going through.....to see some sense out of it.....no matter how hard I looked, the answer was not forth coming.

It wasnt until a few years later and some more life experience that I came to the conclusion that maybe not everything can be answered........and if there was an answer would it match what I was looking for.........and if it didnt match would I actually be prepared to accept it (as an answer)

It is actually me dropping (or acknowledging they exist) a lot of my old belief systems that has actually opened my mind to more "sense"........just because I might not see sense in something now......doesnt mean that in the future I may not see some sense.

Philosphically I think nowadays when I look at what im trying to work out and I think "is there an answer.....can I learn more from the answer or more from the question.....is it actually important that I find an answer.......and what is an answer to me other than me joining my life experiences/thoughts/emotions in a way that I can look at and say "yes""

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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14-09-2011, 12:04 PM
RE: Tough Questions
That's some seriously crazy shit Bemore. I don't pity anyone though, we all have our stories some worse than others some fantastic, and we make of our lives what we can. I'm glad that you view things the way that you do, it's interesting, and I think I understand your wisdom comment now.

Do you mean that you try to take wisdom from everything even when it might not be the intended message? Like if you see something stupid you can flip it and take it as a lesson of what not to do? If so I agree and enjoy your philosophy on life.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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14-09-2011, 12:25 PM
RE: Tough Questions
(14-09-2011 12:04 PM)lucradis Wrote:  . . . philosophy on life.
I would bet that Christians would consider this term to be equivalent to religion, and probably several derivative terms, as well - would you agree?

And, there are atheists that want to make it perfectly clear that atheists cannot have a religion; and so atheists are forced, by peer group pressure, to use some clunky terms - wouldn't you agree with that as well?

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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