Tragic evidence that many still live in Sagan's "demon haunted world"
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15-07-2012, 03:12 PM
Tragic evidence that many still live in Sagan's "demon haunted world"
I'm assuming that most of you are familiar with the Miami face-eating cannibal, but you may not realize just how pervasive religious doctrine and superstitious thinking was in the killer's upbringing and day-to-day life:
http://theunconverted.com/a-tragic-examp...ted-world/


If nothing else, check out some of the chilling quotes from family and loved ones. It serves as a reminder of the work we have to do to help future generations break free of these chains of unskeptical, uncritical, and ultimately un-free thinking.

Granted, we have a stark reminder on this forum - whose latest "evidence" of precognition is painfully unsatisfying to most of us - but I think that what went on with this guy in Miami is orders of magnitude more dangerous than the what afflicts are dear friend, Egor.

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15-07-2012, 04:55 PM
RE: Tragic evidence that many still live in Sagan's "demon haunted world"
I asked a co-worker once (20 years ago) about a issue in the news and he told me that the bible was where he got all of his moral answers. I re-asked the question as "what did he think". His answer was again, "the bible".
He was basically a decent and intelligent person. I've always remembered that 2 minute conversation as chilling.
The insane ones don't have the ability to stop their impulses. Though the so called sane ones believe the same thing, but something stops them from acting. Peer pressure, common sense, self preservation? I'm not sure what goes on in their heads, or when they will take off the stops.
If you take a look at the abortion doctor killers they all were relatively sane until they just thought about the idea that if they truly believed what they said they believed why would they not act, so they did. The belief-action gap closes off and they explode.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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15-07-2012, 08:07 PM
RE: Tragic evidence that many still live in Sagan's "demon haunted world"
My mother is a member of what I call, the televangelist religion. Try as we might, my brother and I have not been able to get her to stop listening to these people. The last time we talked about science with her, she informed us that if she needs any knowledge on history or science she gets it from the TBN channel. She wouldn't ever trust any other source.

/facepalm
(15-07-2012 04:55 PM)Thomas Wrote:  I asked a co-worker once (20 years ago) about a issue in the news and he told me that the bible was where he got all of his moral answers. I re-asked the question as "what did he think". His answer was again, "the bible".
He was basically a decent and intelligent person. I've always remembered that 2 minute conversation as chilling.
The insane ones don't have the ability to stop their impulses. Though the so called sane ones believe the same thing, but something stops them from acting. Peer pressure, common sense, self preservation? I'm not sure what goes on in their heads, or when they will take off the stops.
If you take a look at the abortion doctor killers they all were relatively sane until they just thought about the idea that if they truly believed what they said they believed why would they not act, so they did. The belief-action gap closes off and they explode.
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16-07-2012, 06:51 AM
RE: Tragic evidence that many still live in Sagan's "demon haunted world"
@LJRich - my mom is in a similar boat, only not beholden to televangelists. She's actually joined the ranks of the preachers, helping further indoctrinate herself as well as others. It's one of the saddest aspects of my life. I've pretty much given up on being able to reach her. Not totally, but pretty darn close.

@Thomas - scary stuff indeed. That's why I'm gradually shifting my content efforts to the youth. We have more than enough advocates for skepticism and atheism that spend their time debating creationists, etc. We need more content that's geared to subtly arm the youth with the tools they need (e.g. skepticism and other critical skills) to overcome the avalanche of indoctrination that's hurled their way.

I sometime wonder what might have been had Rudy Eugene been given those tools early in life. Those are hard to find on the inner city streets where he grew up.

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16-07-2012, 10:18 AM
RE: Tragic evidence that many still live in Sagan's "demon haunted world"
My mother also wants to become a preacher. She's 64, so that will never happen, but for awhile we were afraid it would. I forbade my mother to speak of religion around my children, I kept them totally non religious until they were of sufficient age to be able to think rationally about the subject. I think religion is an adult topic, not appropriate for children. She disobeyed that once, and didn't see my children unsupervised again for about 2 1/2 years.

In the case of Rudy Eugene, from all accounts it looks very much like he was trying to break out and make a decent life for himself, but was being held back. Not only by religion, but those around him from the looks of it. Tragic situation to be in. Interesting that those churches showed their true colors when it came right down it, though.
(16-07-2012 06:51 AM)lightninlives Wrote:  @LJRich - my mom is in a similar boat, only not beholden to televangelists. She's actually joined the ranks of the preachers, helping further indoctrinate herself as well as others. It's one of the saddest aspects of my life. I've pretty much given up on being able to reach her. Not totally, but pretty darn close.

@Thomas - scary stuff indeed. That's why I'm gradually shifting my content efforts to the youth. We have more than enough advocates for skepticism and atheism that spend their time debating creationists, etc. We need more content that's geared to subtly arm the youth with the tools they need (e.g. skepticism and other critical skills) to overcome the avalanche of indoctrination that's hurled their way.

I sometime wonder what might have been had Rudy Eugene been given those tools early in life. Those are hard to find on the inner city streets where he grew up.
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16-07-2012, 11:48 AM
RE: Tragic evidence that many still live in Sagan's "demon haunted world"
That is such a sad story. I am so sorry things had to end so horribly for Eugene. And I hope that the guy he attacked has been doing okay. I haven't heard much in a while about what had happened or how his recovery, if there was one, has been going. So many victims here...

I've seen churches show their true colors before, but thankfully it never really ended in anything more than me having to commit my mother for a short time. She suffers from schizophrenia. I think that could be why she clings to her religion even though they have shown her time and time again that they don't care anything about her. When she was at her worst, which was right after I was born, she thought I was the Messiah born again to bring on Judgement Day. Thankfully she was hospitalized and medicated and she has been, for the most part, much better since. But there was absolutely no help from her religious "brothers and sisters" when any of that was happening.
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16-07-2012, 12:19 PM
RE: Tragic evidence that many still live in Sagan's "demon haunted world"
(16-07-2012 11:48 AM)SlipStitch Wrote:  That is such a sad story. I am so sorry things had to end so horribly for Eugene. And I hope that the guy he attacked has been doing okay. I haven't heard much in a while about what had happened or how his recovery, if there was one, has been going. So many victims here...

I've seen churches show their true colors before, but thankfully it never really ended in anything more than me having to commit my mother for a short time. She suffers from schizophrenia. I think that could be why she clings to her religion even though they have shown her time and time again that they don't care anything about her. When she was at her worst, which was right after I was born, she thought I was the Messiah born again to bring on Judgement Day. Thankfully she was hospitalized and medicated and she has been, for the most part, much better since. But there was absolutely no help from her religious "brothers and sisters" when any of that was happening.
In a positively ironic twist, medical science has more or less ensured that the victim in the attack will have a virtually full recovery. What you have here is the typical contrast between religion/superstition and science/secularism.

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16-07-2012, 01:31 PM
RE: Tragic evidence that many still live in Sagan's "demon haunted world"
(16-07-2012 06:51 AM)lightninlives Wrote:  We need more content that's geared to subtly arm the youth with the tools they need (e.g. skepticism and other critical skills) to overcome the avalanche of indoctrination that's hurled their way.
Completely agree. Get to the kids before they do. It is a cultural war. Kids take to critical thinking quite easily, just as they take to superstitious belief, quite easily.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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