Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
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24-03-2017, 04:43 PM
RE: Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
(24-03-2017 03:30 PM)Larai19 Wrote:  I think Earmuffs made a valid point. I do think that if you give too much power to a word that it'll end up giving your enemies too much power.
---
I think this, as well. Thumbsup

That said ...
It is possible, that trust is the thing we might also instill within ourselves enough to remind ourselves that not everyone is the enemy. Shy

One needn't constantly utilize the, I'm-keeping-you-at-arm's-length language, in order to retain power or to know power isn't being usurped.

It can be a difficult thing to take control of or even to let go of the language of our show personality. And it can be a struggle to know when, where, and if one should continue to use it at all.
***
I personally don't mind what anyone says to me but very often, I also don't care for how others are sometimes referred to - especially if it is malicious (which I don't think was Muffs' intent). If someone is trying to make a point, I very often ignore their superficial language and concentrate on the content of their ideas.

I think I might be used to having to pick through things that way, having been around a variety of teenagers for a few years. They certainly have their own language. Wink

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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24-03-2017, 05:10 PM
RE: Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
(24-03-2017 09:48 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(24-03-2017 09:26 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Despite some words/sayings that I personally wouldn't use, I do see Muffs point on this.

I recall a similar "controversy" at a recent Olympic game when a women had won a race, but was later found to have high testosterone levels. [I may be wrong but I think she may have officially been a hermaphrodite].

Personally, I'm on board with having all sports being "mixed", although how that actually works in practice I'm not sure. In my mind at least women and men are equally good at anything they set their minds upon, so don't see why that would be a massive issue. Some sports may end up being more male or female than others, but having the choice to compete in whatever you like should always be an option.

It was Caster Semenya, and she qualified under the Olympic rules to run the race as a woman. It was only after she blew everyone away that suddenly people started shouting about her testosterone levels.

It is rather not fun, because you can't actually have an open-to-anyone race that women in general will do well in. Fact of life. Men as a rule are stronger. That's biology. Certainly there are many female athletes who can outcompete all but the strongest men, but they're very few by comparison to the number of men who compete at their same level. So I can see why you would want to have male and female categories for your sporting events. But then there's this whole *bloody* issue over who gets to compete as a female.

Personally I'd leave it up to the individual. If you think you're female, compete as a female. Problem immediately arises though, that if there's prize money involved, or money in general, then... people are gonna cheat. It's natural. So then you get the ongoing fuckup that is IAAF gender testing and rules and all sorts of bullshit.

It's rather sad, 'cos sport isn't supposed to be legalistic. It's just supposed to be entertainment (for those who watch) and fun and satisfying for those who compete.

Ultra marathons don't necessarily favor males, but that's an outlier.

I'm totally behind your entertainment idea. My husband thinks all adult athletes should be legally able to use whatever performance enhancers they choose in competition, and I can see where he's coming from. Pay everyone, treat them as performers/employees, let them endorse their steroid of choice, and treat the performance records as the real thing we're tracking. How fast is that mile possible, with steroids or HGH? That would be interesting to know. Imagine Watch What Happens Live as Caitlyn Jenner comments on the honest, performance-enhanced Decathlon.

There's no such thing as pure sport at the competitive level. "Pure" sport is an aristocratic idea of the person who's effortlessly good at everything because they're a product of good breeding.
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24-03-2017, 05:14 PM
RE: Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
An Olympics with the athletes on LSD, now that would be a hoot to watch.
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24-03-2017, 05:15 PM
RE: Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
(24-03-2017 05:10 PM)julep Wrote:  
(24-03-2017 09:48 AM)morondog Wrote:  It was Caster Semenya, and she qualified under the Olympic rules to run the race as a woman. It was only after she blew everyone away that suddenly people started shouting about her testosterone levels.

It is rather not fun, because you can't actually have an open-to-anyone race that women in general will do well in. Fact of life. Men as a rule are stronger. That's biology. Certainly there are many female athletes who can outcompete all but the strongest men, but they're very few by comparison to the number of men who compete at their same level. So I can see why you would want to have male and female categories for your sporting events. But then there's this whole *bloody* issue over who gets to compete as a female.

Personally I'd leave it up to the individual. If you think you're female, compete as a female. Problem immediately arises though, that if there's prize money involved, or money in general, then... people are gonna cheat. It's natural. So then you get the ongoing fuckup that is IAAF gender testing and rules and all sorts of bullshit.

It's rather sad, 'cos sport isn't supposed to be legalistic. It's just supposed to be entertainment (for those who watch) and fun and satisfying for those who compete.

Ultra marathons don't necessarily favor males, but that's an outlier.

I'm totally behind your entertainment idea. My husband thinks all adult athletes should be legally able to use whatever performance enhancers they choose in competition, and I can see where he's coming from. Pay everyone, treat them as performers/employees, let them endorse their steroid of choice, and treat the performance records as the real thing we're tracking. How fast is that mile possible, with steroids or HGH? That would be interesting to know. Imagine Watch What Happens Live as Caitlyn Jenner comments on the honest, performance-enhanced Decathlon.

There's no such thing as pure sport at the competitive level. "Pure" sport is an aristocratic idea of the person who's effortlessly good at everything because they're a product of good breeding.

They're all using high-tech epigenetics and shit anyway. Don't think gene modulation and expression is banned yet.

#sigh
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24-03-2017, 05:19 PM
RE: Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
(24-03-2017 05:14 PM)adey67 Wrote:  An Olympics with the athletes on LSD, now that would be a hoot to watch.

How Dock Ellis dropped acid and threw a no-hitter

Dock Ellis tried to pitch on LSD a second time and it went much worse

I have his rookie card. Big Grin

#sigh
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24-03-2017, 05:40 PM
RE: Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
(24-03-2017 05:19 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(24-03-2017 05:14 PM)adey67 Wrote:  An Olympics with the athletes on LSD, now that would be a hoot to watch.

How Dock Ellis dropped acid and threw a no-hitter

Dock Ellis tried to pitch on LSD a second time and it went much worse

I have his rookie card. Big Grin


I saw a documentary on Netflix about that guy!!!

It was odd...


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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24-03-2017, 08:52 PM
RE: Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
(24-03-2017 03:30 PM)Larai19 Wrote:  I think Earmuffs made a valid point. I do think that if you give too much power to a word that it'll end up giving your enemies too much power. I'm biracial and I've been called obvious slurs from the hillbilly side of my family, so what? I don't get offended they are bigoted people and they don't deserve my time. Muffs however doesn't seem to be bigoted and says it as if the word is nothing horrible at all.

If you know that the person who is saying the slur word doesn't mean it with any sort of malice (like muffs did) then why get upset with them? If there's no discrimination, no anger, no real intent to harm you with said word then why talk about how awful the word is and make your issue seem like it needs special carefulness?

It's why I don't care if someone I care about jokingly or passively says slurs. It doesn't bother me. They don't mean any harm, just like Muffs meant no harm. Overvaluing words and getting offended doesn't make anyone seem more mature or more empathetic. It just causes conflict that is unnecessary and will lead to pointless confrontation and assumptions on both parties.

There's a difference when enemies say it vs when allies and friends say it. Enemies say it to offend me. And it rolls off my back like water off a slicker. When someone I thought was an ally says it, and continues to say it after knowing how I feel about it, it's not just insensitive- it's purposefully ignoring my feelings... it's completely disrespectful and aggressive. Muffs thinks he knows better. But you know what? He doesn't. Him and the others defending him for this shit are disappointing. Because they simply don't care about what experiences it brings up in my mind and others like me.

Enemies- they will say anything in an attempt to get at me. I've had nazis on twitter say worse shit to me than Muffs and it meant nothing to me. Because I know how they feel about me already. They just want to get under my skin.

But allies and friends who disregard my feelings? That's complete disrespect. And that's what disappoints me. They think that I am too sensitive, and that I ought not take offense to their blatant disregard of my emotional reactions to their hurtful words.

So it's not enemies that hurt- though I will sometimes fight hem and call them out on their garbage- it's friends that hurt.

In your scenario, you have a relationship that has an understanding of the words and their intent. You know what they mean. Close friends get more leeway because they are close to you, and you know their heart. Even so, I don't have a single close friend who would even consider calling me a tranny. Let alone say it to my face. Because I surround myself with people who care about me. And because they care about me, they know how I feel about that shit, and they respect that. If I was okay with it, and they were too, then that would be a different story.

So you misjudge me if you think I'm going around crying every time someone uses the word. I've had it yelled at me enough to not care about overt bigots doing it (unless they are physically there and violent).
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24-03-2017, 09:16 PM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2017 09:42 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
(22-03-2017 02:30 PM)Goosesniper Wrote:  I'm not saying all gay men do this. Not the self respectful ones anyway.

Fuck yourself Goosestepper. It's not up to you to determine who is "self-respectful" and who is not. It's up to them. You get to determine nothing.
It's up to them, and they can act any fucking way they like. If you can't handle it (being a homophobe, who *needs* people to act in a certain way, that's your fucking problem, not theirs).
But thanks for admitting you are a judgmental superficial person, who judges on totally superficial acts.

Quote:It's the ones who act gay. They do nothing for their cause.

In your eyes. Who cares ? You do nothing for your cause.
Maybe they see no reason to "do anything" for their cause. YOU don't determine who needs to do what, you fucking ignorant superficial dictatorial ignoramus.
There is no such thing as "acting gay". You just contradicted yourself. If you don't know that, you're worse off than anyone can imagine. What ? You live under a rock ? In junior high ?

Quote:I have no respect for anyone who Acts like this.

No one cares who you respect and who you don't respect. No one respects you.
You think they care that an ignorant fool doesn't respect them or like the way they act ? What is this, the 18th Century ? Grow up.

Quote:As mentioned. There is a gay person in my family. He acts like a man. So does his partner.

Men act in all kinds of different ways. If you are so limited and ignorant and small-minded you think they only act one way, no one can help you, you fucking ignorant infant.

Quote:I would loose all respect for them if they started acting like flamers. And please don't give me your crap about saying this. Even they hate the flamers. It makes them look bad. They do not consider themselves the same as them.

Many people think "flamers" are humorous and challenge the norms, just like "butch" women do and are perfectly acceptable. People get to act the way they want, as long as they don't harm anyone. All this is YOUR problem. No one else's. The REAL question is why are YOU so homophobic and rigid ? I think I know :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8772014

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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24-03-2017, 09:25 PM
RE: Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
(24-03-2017 08:52 PM)Emma Wrote:  
(24-03-2017 03:30 PM)Larai19 Wrote:  I think Earmuffs made a valid point. I do think that if you give too much power to a word that it'll end up giving your enemies too much power. I'm biracial and I've been called obvious slurs from the hillbilly side of my family, so what? I don't get offended they are bigoted people and they don't deserve my time. Muffs however doesn't seem to be bigoted and says it as if the word is nothing horrible at all.

If you know that the person who is saying the slur word doesn't mean it with any sort of malice (like muffs did) then why get upset with them? If there's no discrimination, no anger, no real intent to harm you with said word then why talk about how awful the word is and make your issue seem like it needs special carefulness?

It's why I don't care if someone I care about jokingly or passively says slurs. It doesn't bother me. They don't mean any harm, just like Muffs meant no harm. Overvaluing words and getting offended doesn't make anyone seem more mature or more empathetic. It just causes conflict that is unnecessary and will lead to pointless confrontation and assumptions on both parties.

There's a difference when enemies say it vs when allies and friends say it. Enemies say it to offend me. And it rolls off my back like water off a slicker. When someone I thought was an ally says it, and continues to say it after knowing how I feel about it, it's not just insensitive- it's purposefully ignoring my feelings... it's completely disrespectful and aggressive. Muffs thinks he knows better. But you know what? He doesn't. Him and the others defending him for this shit are disappointing. Because they simply don't care about what experiences it brings up in my mind and others like me.

Enemies- they will say anything in an attempt to get at me. I've had nazis on twitter say worse shit to me than Muffs and it meant nothing to me. Because I know how they feel about me already. They just want to get under my skin.

But allies and friends who disregard my feelings? That's complete disrespect. And that's what disappoints me. They think that I am too sensitive, and that I ought not take offense to their blatant disregard of my emotional reactions to their hurtful words.

So it's not enemies that hurt- though I will sometimes fight hem and call them out on their garbage- it's friends that hurt.

In your scenario, you have a relationship that has an understanding of the words and their intent. You know what they mean. Close friends get more leeway because they are close to you, and you know their heart. Even so, I don't have a single close friend who would even consider calling me a tranny. Let alone say it to my face. Because I surround myself with people who care about me. And because they care about me, they know how I feel about that shit, and they respect that. If I was okay with it, and they were too, then that would be a different story.

So you misjudge me if you think I'm going around crying every time someone uses the word. I've had it yelled at me enough to not care about overt bigots doing it (unless they are physically there and violent).

I meant no disregard to your feelings and I understand how you might feel about insensitivity to what others say. I'm sure no one could deny that when someone says something hurtful to anyone that they'll get upset or ticked off. I just think that's too much power to give a single word is all..
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24-03-2017, 09:36 PM
RE: Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
(24-03-2017 09:25 PM)Larai19 Wrote:  
(24-03-2017 08:52 PM)Emma Wrote:  There's a difference when enemies say it vs when allies and friends say it. Enemies say it to offend me. And it rolls off my back like water off a slicker. When someone I thought was an ally says it, and continues to say it after knowing how I feel about it, it's not just insensitive- it's purposefully ignoring my feelings... it's completely disrespectful and aggressive. Muffs thinks he knows better. But you know what? He doesn't. Him and the others defending him for this shit are disappointing. Because they simply don't care about what experiences it brings up in my mind and others like me.

Enemies- they will say anything in an attempt to get at me. I've had nazis on twitter say worse shit to me than Muffs and it meant nothing to me. Because I know how they feel about me already. They just want to get under my skin.

But allies and friends who disregard my feelings? That's complete disrespect. And that's what disappoints me. They think that I am too sensitive, and that I ought not take offense to their blatant disregard of my emotional reactions to their hurtful words.

So it's not enemies that hurt- though I will sometimes fight hem and call them out on their garbage- it's friends that hurt.

In your scenario, you have a relationship that has an understanding of the words and their intent. You know what they mean. Close friends get more leeway because they are close to you, and you know their heart. Even so, I don't have a single close friend who would even consider calling me a tranny. Let alone say it to my face. Because I surround myself with people who care about me. And because they care about me, they know how I feel about that shit, and they respect that. If I was okay with it, and they were too, then that would be a different story.

So you misjudge me if you think I'm going around crying every time someone uses the word. I've had it yelled at me enough to not care about overt bigots doing it (unless they are physically there and violent).

I meant no disregard to your feelings and I understand how you might feel about insensitivity to what others say. I'm sure no one could deny that when someone says something hurtful to anyone that they'll get upset or ticked off. I just think that's too much power to give a single word is all..

The point is- it's not the word that has the power. It's the power I give to friends and allies by way of mutual respect and trust. Completely disregarding that respect and trust by using words that hurt, despite knowing how I feel about them- that's what has the power to disappoint and to hurt.

I got upset and defensive when I saw Muffs use the word in the opening sentence of his post. Because I knew he is gay and I thought him an ally- and still do, sort of. But that he not only doesn't respect me enough to not use it- he directly calls me by the word.

So yeah- in my eyes, Muffs doesn't have a point. Muffs misses the point entirely. And he's a dick that can fuck right off.
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