Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
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22-03-2017, 10:15 AM
RE: Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
(22-03-2017 10:00 AM)Emma Wrote:  Personally, I'd never want to compete for a title like this as a trans person. Because even if you win, you can't "really" win.

So, all that to say- there are definitely concerns. But proper medical monitoring and judgement ought to be put in place (if it's not there already) to help mitigate any unfairness.

I think that's the huge problem. I think sports are often slower to acknowledge the problems -- maybe. When Bruce Jenner came out as Caitlyn and was public there were people who genuinely so upset they said that (s)he should give back the medals and they were even more pissed about being featured on Wheaties box. I've never held that opinion and felt what she did was exceptionally brave -- it's not easy doing privately, but really out in the public eye...

That's also why I mentioned Lance Armstrong, who was found guilty of using performance enhancing drugs and stripped of his titles.

Then there's others like baseball's Barry Bonds, who hit a bunch of home runs...There are many in baseball that feel those runs should be expunged from his record.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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22-03-2017, 11:00 AM
Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
Here is the apparent problem. There is no real definition for this. What is a man? What is a woman? I'm wondering for those that have schizophrenia. Can you be a man today and a woman tomorrow? Who's bathroom do I use? Can I pick and choose what sex I want to be today? Can I play in woman's sports or vis versa? That's all I know, when I see a tranny and you can obviously tell. It's hard not to stare. When I see fags making out on tv. It turns my stomach. Just being honest. Either way you look at its a bit fubared. It's just not right. That being said. They are still people and should be respected as such. It's complicated how to deal with it for sure. I certainly don't envy them. Can they simply be disqualified and not permitted to attend? Not sure.
I certainly don't think Mike phelps should be able to change sexes and compete against woman. It's just not fair. Maybe they have to have their own category. They do now.


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22-03-2017, 11:06 AM
RE: Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
....

OK, putting aside the "tranny" and "fags" in order to actually engage....

It would appear that the part of the brain that forms identity and the part that forms biological sex form separately. As such, your identity and your body can fail to match up.

I don't think we should have segregated bathrooms, and I don't know that sports segregated by sex rather than muscle/weight class are productive.
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22-03-2017, 11:08 AM
RE: Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
(22-03-2017 11:00 AM)Goosesniper Wrote:  Here is the apparent problem. There is no real definition for this. What is a man? What is a woman? I'm wondering for those that have schizophrenia. Can you be a man today and a woman tomorrow? Who's bathroom do I use? Can I pick and choose what sex I want to be today? Can I play in woman's sports or vis versa? That's all I know, when I see a tranny and you can obviously tell. It's hard not to stare. When I see fags making out on tv. It turns my stomach. Just being honest. Either way you look at its a bit fubared. It's just not right. That being said. They are still people and should be respected as such. It's complicated how to deal with it for sure. I certainly don't envy them. Can they simply be disqualified and not permitted to attend? Not sure.
I certainly don't think Mike phelps should be able to change sexes and compete against woman. It's just not fair. Maybe they have to have their own category. They do now.


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22-03-2017, 11:12 AM
Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
(22-03-2017 11:06 AM)natachan Wrote:  ....

OK, putting aside the "tranny" and "fags" in order to actually engage....

It would appear that the part of the brain that forms identity and the part that forms biological sex form separately. As such, your identity and your body can fail to match up.

I don't think we should have segregated bathrooms, and I don't know that sports segregated by sex rather than muscle/weight class are productive.


You don't know if sports by sex is productive? I think some sports have to be separated by gender. Maybe not darts or bowling. Hockey. Even the strongest of woman would get creamed by an average male hockey player. Sorry. That's just the way it is.


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22-03-2017, 11:13 AM
RE: Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
(22-03-2017 07:52 AM)Emma Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 07:42 AM)adey67 Wrote:  I'm all for Trans equality but I have to agree with muffs that the biological advantage is huge for this person, it potentially has the possibility to totally wipeout the competition even if they are taking female hormones.

It entirely depends on several factors- including how long she's been on hormones, what her levels are, and whether there are guidelines/regulations for monitoring and ensuring fairness in the competition.

I've been on hormones for two years now. I'm a regular runner. The longer I've been on hormones, the harder it's become to run for long distances. That means working harder and longer just to keep up with other women my age who have the same practices.

Without T, it's simply harder to build and maintain muscle.

I've not yet been able to find an article that actually examines details over headlines.

Is it potentially unfair? Yes. Is it definitely unfair? I don't know. It depends.

When my daughter first transitioned her muscles were fairly defined, more masculine, but she takes Spironolactone (which I'm sure you know is a type of anti-testosterone drug) along with estrogen and progesterone and her arm and leg muscles softened. I workout with weights along with ballet and yoga and my muscles are more defined than hers now.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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22-03-2017, 11:14 AM
RE: Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
Which is why you would have different leagues for people with different weights or muscle mass. Your strongest women would compete with men who were comparably muscled and weigh about the same.
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22-03-2017, 11:16 AM
RE: Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
(22-03-2017 11:06 AM)natachan Wrote:  ....

OK, putting aside the "tranny" and "fags" in order to actually engage....

It would appear that the part of the brain that forms identity and the part that forms biological sex form separately. As such, your identity and your body can fail to match up.

I don't think we should have segregated bathrooms, and I don't know that sports segregated by sex rather than muscle/weight class are productive.

I agree the use of tranny is inappropriate and derogatory, would it really fucking hurt you to use the term transgender? Its a few extra letters and so not hard to do !!!! Angry seriously guys, come on. Sad
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22-03-2017, 11:21 AM
RE: Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
(22-03-2017 11:16 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 11:06 AM)natachan Wrote:  ....

OK, putting aside the "tranny" and "fags" in order to actually engage....

It would appear that the part of the brain that forms identity and the part that forms biological sex form separately. As such, your identity and your body can fail to match up.

I don't think we should have segregated bathrooms, and I don't know that sports segregated by sex rather than muscle/weight class are productive.

I agree the use of tranny is inappropriate and derogatory, would it really fucking hurt you to use the term transgender? Its a few extra letters and so not hard to do !!!! Angry seriously guys, come on. Sad

Thank you Adey. Thumbsup
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22-03-2017, 11:23 AM
RE: Tran's rights and sports and shit and my 4 cents.
Honestly, I think far too big a deal is made of the whole thing. The percentage of trans people is pretty small, the percentage of elite trans athletes, minute.

It's not as though non-trans athletes are going to pretend to be trans to be able to compete as a different gender.

Maybe if the number of trans athletes changes significantly we'd need to consider different classes based on something other than sex/gender, but for now, I don't really see that trans athletes competing as the gender they identify with most is really any sort of problem.

Sure, a trans woman may have higher testosterone levels than the average non trans woman (although looking at the above, even that may not be true) but I am sure that many non-trans athletes have naturally higher levels than the norm too. Same with body shape/bone density etc etc yada yada yada.


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