Trans women not 'real women'
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14-03-2017, 01:58 PM
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
I read an interesting article about transgendered people in my morning paper today and thought it might be of interest. It also includes a 4 minute video by a couple of Aussie transgender people, and in particular an eloquent discussion by a very articulate young woman.

Check it out HERE

I particularly liked her answers to the "which toilet" question. Thumbsup

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14-03-2017, 02:33 PM
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
(14-03-2017 01:58 PM)SYZ Wrote:  I read an interesting article about transgendered people in my morning paper today and thought it might be of interest. It also includes a 4 minute video by a couple of Aussie transgender people, and in particular an eloquent discussion by a very articulate young woman.

Check it out HERE

I particularly liked her answers to the "which toilet" question. Thumbsup

That was a great article, Syz, thanks for sharing!

I agree with Allison's take. While no trans story is the same- regardless of whether we could "enjoy" male privilege, it is gone and then some as soon as you come out.

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14-03-2017, 06:09 PM (This post was last modified: 14-03-2017 06:12 PM by Alla.)
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
Heart EMMA Heart

I read the links and I watched the video. I found it as a very good source of information.
I never had a problem with accepting transgender people, gays or lesbians. When I lived in LA close to Santa Monica Blvd a small group trans girls(young women) were my next door neighbors. They lived in the same apartment. I often had conversations with them on the common balcony. I was smocking cigarettes they were looking for men. I don't know if that was their way to make money or for fun. I never asked. I never asked them about what it means to be transgender. (I had my good manners). But one girl, I forgot her name, told me about herself a little bit. But she started this conversation. Oh no, I remember her name! Jessica.
They were really, really nice girls(young women). I liked them.


P.S. Now that I know more about transgender people I can understand better their battles. I hope more people will know and understand and accept. Good luck.

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15-03-2017, 01:13 AM
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
I'm very impressed Alla Smile So many people stubbornly refuse to learn.

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15-03-2017, 07:07 AM
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
(14-03-2017 06:09 PM)Alla Wrote:  Heart EMMA Heart

I read the links and I watched the video. I found it as a very good source of information.
I never had a problem with accepting transgender people, gays or lesbians. When I lived in LA close to Santa Monica Blvd a small group trans girls(young women) were my next door neighbors. They lived in the same apartment. I often had conversations with them on the common balcony. I was smocking cigarettes they were looking for men. I don't know if that was their way to make money or for fun. I never asked. I never asked them about what it means to be transgender. (I had my good manners). But one girl, I forgot her name, told me about herself a little bit. But she started this conversation. Oh no, I remember her name! Jessica.
They were really, really nice girls(young women). I liked them.


P.S. Now that I know more about transgender people I can understand better their battles. I hope more people will know and understand and accept. Good luck.

Yayyyy Alla! Awwww Heart Hug Thank you for taking the time to listen and understand. I hope that I can do the same myself when confronted with new and different people!
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15-03-2017, 07:11 AM
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
(14-03-2017 06:09 PM)Alla Wrote:  P.S. Now that I know more about transgender people I can understand better their battles. I hope more people will know and understand and accept. Good luck.

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15-03-2017, 07:27 AM
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
(14-03-2017 06:09 PM)Alla Wrote:  Heart EMMA Heart

I read the links and I watched the video. I found it as a very good source of information.
I never had a problem with accepting transgender people, gays or lesbians. When I lived in LA close to Santa Monica Blvd a small group trans girls(young women) were my next door neighbors. They lived in the same apartment. I often had conversations with them on the common balcony. I was smocking cigarettes they were looking for men. I don't know if that was their way to make money or for fun. I never asked. I never asked them about what it means to be transgender. (I had my good manners). But one girl, I forgot her name, told me about herself a little bit. But she started this conversation. Oh no, I remember her name! Jessica.
They were really, really nice girls(young women). I liked them.


P.S. Now that I know more about transgender people I can understand better their battles. I hope more people will know and understand and accept. Good luck.

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15-03-2017, 07:33 AM
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
(14-03-2017 06:09 PM)Alla Wrote:  Heart EMMA Heart

I read the links and I watched the video. I found it as a very good source of information.
I never had a problem with accepting transgender people, gays or lesbians. When I lived in LA close to Santa Monica Blvd a small group trans girls(young women) were my next door neighbors. They lived in the same apartment. I often had conversations with them on the common balcony. I was smocking cigarettes they were looking for men. I don't know if that was their way to make money or for fun. I never asked. I never asked them about what it means to be transgender. (I had my good manners). But one girl, I forgot her name, told me about herself a little bit. But she started this conversation. Oh no, I remember her name! Jessica.
They were really, really nice girls(young women). I liked them.


P.S. Now that I know more about transgender people I can understand better their battles. I hope more people will know and understand and accept. Good luck.

Heart Alla Heart
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15-03-2017, 11:55 AM
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
That's a fascinating article (and video), SYZ. Good find!

I certainly agree that it's a ridiculous question to ask if trans women "really" are women, in terms of privilege, because male privilege is not about checking/confirming one's genitals any more than it is for other types of (cis) men who don't fit the standard male archetypes that get handed that privilege. We see it in effeminate gay men, in men who are particularly nerdy, and so on... they are denied the privilege in many, if not most ways, if they fail to conform to the binary gender "program". To claim that there is some point where a trans woman who has not fully "come out" is benefiting from male privilege is to ignore what we see in the other instances, sadly. Sad

As bad as things are for cis women in our culture (and worse in others), I'd say that given the statistics I've seen for both groups, most trans women would give anything to rise to the level of oppression faced by their cis female counterparts. From what I can tell, the end goal of a trans rights activist is to see the day when the horrible double-standards and other negative conditions too often faced by females in western culture is something they can hope to attain, compared to the way it is for trans persons, here. [Edit: In other words, "We just want to finally be treated like normal women... THEN we'll deal with how bad conditions are for normal women, here".]

So the question, to me, isn't whether or not trans women have the right to speak of privilege as feminists... but whether cis feminists should have to "pass muster" according to trans feminists before they get to speak of anything like oppression.

(To be clear, I am in no way saying that it's okay that, in our culture, anyone has more privilege than anyone else, or that it's expected that things should be bad for any group. Never. I am simply amazed that a group with more privileges than the trans community seems to be making it an issue of whether the trans women somehow qualify to speak on "real" oppression, when I think if there should be an arbitration, it should be in the other direction. End of Cis-White-Male-Opinion™ on subject.)

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15-03-2017, 12:02 PM
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
Along those same lines of thought, I have had the unpoplular opinion that Kaitlyn Jenner was a poor spokesperson, and all the gushing about "how brave she was" disgusted me.
She had money and privilge always. I reserve my admiration and support for the regular folks who struggle daily in the face of bigotry and oppression. People who will never be able to afford to look like they feel, who lose thier livelihood and sometimes lose the will to continue in the face of it all.
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