Trans women not 'real women'
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08-03-2017, 09:05 PM
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
Jenni Murray can fuck right off. She's never been trans so who is she to be say whether a trans woman is a "real woman". I'm not sure she's ever even been a woman let alone trans. Dodgy And why is this about trans women specifically and not trans in general if she must butt in where she doesn't belong? And why is she even writing such an article at all? It's frankly none of her concern.

Why do people like this bitch have to single out different groups for criticism so much? Freaking people with inferiority complexes, I swear! Yeah she touched a nerve. People that can't keep their noses out of other people's sexual orientations really tick me off! Angry

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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08-03-2017, 09:22 PM
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
What is a "real" woman?

Sexually dimorphic characteristics of organisms are just tendencies that occur a lot in nature, since certain traits, like PUSSIES and COCKS, are BIGLY beneficial for the propagation of a species.

People scrutinize over the categorization of things in a desperate attempt to gain control over them. Who are they trying to fool? #SillyHumans #Nature1Humans0 #SAD #HugeLosers

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08-03-2017, 09:49 PM
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
(06-03-2017 03:59 AM)ukatheist Wrote:  https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co....p/39173398

While I can see the point she is trying to make, she seems to assume that anyone born female will share the same experiences and 'oppression', and that that is a key element of 'womanhood'.

While I don't disagree that there is more to 'womanhood', whatever that even means, than what organs you have, I don't necessarily think being raised female is a particularly large part of that.

And she appears to be attacking transwomen for dressing 'for' men - that is not my general experience of transwomen, but for those who do choose to dress a certain way, I am fairly certain that most choose to do so to feel more confident in their femininity that to please men.

And finally, if it's not ok for men to demand that women dress and act a certain way, why is ok for her to do the same?

And people who grew up trans never experienced being oppressed? If anyone understands oppression, it's someone who didn't feel they were born the right gender for themselves and yet, have to fight society every step of the way.

Being a woman is innate as it says in the article. It has nothing to do with being oppressed. And so what if transwomen want to look good whether it's for themselves, for others, or both. Most people care about their appearance. You can still look good while you tackle a cause.
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08-03-2017, 09:57 PM
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
I would like to know the definition of 'real woman'.

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08-03-2017, 10:17 PM
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
We all dress to look good as a member of our chosen gender and social sub-type (that is, the image we're trying to present to the world), often for the purposes of attracting (and/or retaining) mates, but just as often to bolster our own self-image and demonstrate our sense of place in the social structures of the culture. For instance, I'm "culturally" an American male motorcyclist, and as a result I wear boots, jeans, and a thick leather jacket much of the time. This is how I "present". But really, the "male" part is somewhat irrelevant, in this sub-culture, as the gear for female riders is almost identical.

Everyone does it. All of us. We stake our claim to an identity. Everyday people dressing up in their "Sunday best" to go to church do it, likely for every one of the reasons above. Why does it need to be remarked upon that trans* people do it?

And Aractus... what would you say if the micronation to which you refer had adopted the Aboriginal and/or Australian flags and then declared war on the "false nations" that the flags actually stand for? Would you be "disgusted" by it, then? Would you declare that people needed to "distance" themselves from the Australian flag, simply because this group of assholes had abused what it actually stands for? I think you're stretching (as is your parliamentarian) for an excuse to justify a prejudice you don't wish to examine too closely.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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09-03-2017, 02:45 AM
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
I want to be as kind and supportive of trans people as I can be. I've always loved androgyny and gender bending. I don't want to discriminate in anyway. I don't want to get hung up on a hurtful semantic but still just wanting to be something doesn't make you something you aren't.
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09-03-2017, 05:07 AM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2017 05:12 AM by Mathilda.)
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
Using Jenni Murray's logic she isn't a real woman because she doesn't feel compelled to cover up and hasn't experienced female genital mutilation.

Her argument also falls down when asking about transsexuals that have spent most of their lives in their chosen gender. A transwoman will not have had much male privilege if they have always worked as a woman, been seen as a woman and been known as a woman because they transitioned early enough. Especially as they will have experienced far more male violence growing up than the majority of women can even fear experiencing.

She talks about transsexuals she has spoken to. Yet the majority don't want anyone to know their medical history and aren't out as being transsexual. They just want to be taken as the people they feel they are. So her perception is skewed by the few older transsexuals who can't go back into the woodwork and hide their past. So they don't get treated as being the gender they present as.

In the example about the Dorchester hotel's demands that women dress in a certain way and that one transsexual was happy to comply, what she isn't taking into account the pain, suffering and effort required just to start living full time in your chosen gender and be accepted as such. To the point where while you might not like the struggles inherent in living as that gender, you can be still be grateful and glad to have reached the point where it is even an issue. Because for many the alternative is to not live at all. Having to wear make-up, stockings and have manicures is trivial compared to that.

She is assuming that all transsexuals think alike and assumes that they are all concerned about how they dress. It would be ludicrous to make such a claim about asthma sufferers for example. Gender dysphoria is a medical condition not constrained to any personality type or socio-economic background. But when not presenting properly can literally mean the difference between treated as a person, or being treated as a freak that can be verbally abused, groped, attacked or even murdered, then yes, it is important. Especially when transsexuals in the most part have been denied the puberty and upbringing that they have longed for and therefore the opportunity to make mistakes and get away with it.

Most infuriating of all she is lumping transsexuals and transvestites together. Transvestites are happy in their gender identity but enjoy dressing up as the opposite sex for a buzz. It's not a game for transsexuals. It's about being treated as the person that you are. This shows a complete lack of understanding and ignorance on her part.

Yes socialisation is an important part of your gender, and she, in her privileged position as a cisgendered person with a public persona, is helping to deny transsexuals the right to be treated as who they are by coming up with arbitrary excuses about why they should be treated as something different. This makes her a hypocrite.
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09-03-2017, 05:42 AM
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
(08-03-2017 09:57 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I would like to know the definition of 'real woman'.





KL-E-0 is as real as she is.

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09-03-2017, 05:45 AM
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
(09-03-2017 02:45 AM)ImFred Wrote:  I don't want to discriminate in anyway. I don't want to get hung up on a hurtful semantic but still just wanting to be something doesn't make you something you aren't.

So who does decide what things are?
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09-03-2017, 06:35 AM
RE: Trans women not 'real women'
(08-03-2017 09:57 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I would like to know the definition of 'real woman'.

From a purely scientific standpoint...

Females have two of the same kind of sex chromosome (XX), and are called the homogametic sex, whereas males have two distinct sex chromosomes (XY), and are called the heterogametic sex.

Exceptions to this generalisation can occur in the cases of XX males or XY females, or a genetic association syndrome.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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