Transgender
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
19-01-2011, 10:48 PM
 
RE: Transgender
(18-01-2011 04:06 PM)mBear Wrote:  I recently saw one of Scott Meyers' basic instruction cartoons, and it had a good point: "Focus not on the troublesome fact, but on yourself. Try to figure out why you're having so much trouble accepting it." So you definitely gave me a few things to think about Smile

That's an outstanding quote. Interesting discussion!

As a parent, I really don't know what I would do or how I would feel. My heart goes out to parents who have to deal with such tough issues, knowing how we're all just hoping to do right by our kids with the limited things we understand as human beings.
Quote this message in a reply
20-01-2011, 10:29 PM
 
RE: Transgender
Today one of my professors was talking about sex determination and got me thinking about this thread.

In nature, a lot of organisms are able to change their sex, or their sex is determined by environmental factors no matter what their genetic makeup is. For example, sex determination in turtles and amphibians depends on what temperature the eggs are incubated. In others, it depends on the population, so if there are a lot of females, then the embryo will develop into a male. He also mentioned that there are a few theories about the same happening in human populations, however there isn't a lot of evidence to support it.

It is fascinating how the genotype isn't always what determines the phenotype. It gave me another perspective on the whole thing.
Quote this message in a reply
10-02-2011, 06:15 AM
RE: Transgender
I saw this topic and was sure I'd have something to say. I'm Intersexed, (though legally considered male) and I grew up never at any point being male. when I see videos of kids I would love to have been able to be so open about it and I don't look at a 7 year old boy in a dress and think they're being given hormones. The 8 year old video gave you a basic idea of the fact chemicals being introduced and lifestyles aren't starting at the same time. I'm not so young that I was able to have everything work out because I said something though. when I demanded being a girl I was 14, when I rebelled and forced the life change of outward appearance I was 16. at 17 I was in a psych ward and it kind of slowed me down due to the fact I ended up in one (because I wanted a therapist) . So I actually began HRT (hormone replacement therapy) at 24.

Being intersexed you'd think I had special priveledges because I wasn't fully male, but no one believed that. I still have trouble convincing people of the fact my body does what it does. So I've lived with this, and since the moment I was conscious I knew what I was and shortly after knew it wasn't what they said I was. I don't blame my family for the years of opression growing up as a boy thrust on me, I simply accept that when I was introduced the male female model it scared me to be told I was one way when I definitely was not that way. if you're wondering, no one was concerned about my bad back at 8 or worried about my female puberty at 12 (definitely not something wrong with my hormones).

My actual comment for this post is on an earlier statement about SRS (sexual reassignment surgery). Transitioning is not fully an elective decision. It is, in the fact that you can choose whether or not you're going to tell the truth or lie. Where each has their own consequences and being happy generally means the truth. The drugs are not that expensive since they are considered widely prescribed so basic hormones are not a huge issue, the only serious cost now is the surgery, which is a visible and feeling change for girls (getting a vagina) and for boys (getting a penis) a visually acceptable but less functioning change. Neither surgery alters them enough to bare children or use their new genitals for anything other than bathroom and bedroom use. Along with carrying a new version around with them all day. So these things don't actually make someone the other gender. Which would stand to reason they're elective right?

Not yet in the US, according to a large portion of the US you are male if you have a penis and you are female if you do not have a penis. So all the sudden this elective surgery becomes completely necessary for a sex change. Because I can be a beautiful woman, sound it, look it, live it, but if I have a penis I'm a man. That's the general US consensus. If people can agree with the fact that living a gender, being that gender all the time, and discussing with gender therapists and convincing them that you are that gender (after generally at least a year of talking) thereby getting their agreement along with a doctor makes you female, then yes the surgery is purely elective. But, if I go to work and can't use the bathroom (until I have my surgery) don't get a say in disputes among colleagues (until I have my surgery), and won't stop being treated as a second class citizen, (without needing to have a surgery) then that surgery starts sounding pretty mandatory.

Enough transsexuals can live their life without new genitals. As you get to where you're comfortable the next step becomes less important, but if you can't be comfortable stopping halfway then there is no real choice. If not being a boy means you have to be a girl visually in every way or vice versa, then needing to not be a boy or girl means the need for your entire body to be altered.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Lilith Pride's post
10-02-2011, 09:44 PM
RE: Transgender
Yes, there is definitely a problem with the mentality towards sex/gender. It astonishes me that so many nations and people only accept two sexes and/or genders, when there are clearly more.

The fact is that sex and gender are much more fluid than general consensus would like to believe. For some reason, our societies need to squeeze everybody into not only gender roles, but sex roles as well. If you are born with a genetically and/or biologically male body, then ergo you are a male! Doesn't matter what your brain tells you, society deems it so. It's quite sad that our definitions have to be so narrow-minded.

In my Human Sexuality class last year, we discussed intersexed individuals at length, and many of those who were born intersexed were operated on as infants in order to make them either male or female (usually based on which chromosomes they possessed). Much of the time, the parents were not even properly informed about the situation; they were just told that an emergency procedure needed to be done. But there's never an emergency; these infants are just as healthy as any others. Our society is just not comfortable with the fact that there are more than two sexes, so we need to change them to "fit" into these narrow categories. Many of these individuals went on to have complications later in life, not to mention a lot of psychological stress Undecided

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-02-2011, 10:10 PM (This post was last modified: 10-02-2011 10:15 PM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Transgender
Since the mid 90's it's been much less commonly practiced to just perform sex changes to fix *deformities* in infants. Science may consider evolution important but in practice with humans none of it is very accepted. The 6th appendage, vestigial tail, etc. All sorts of variants of the current human that they just can't accept.

I'm sure in your class you learned about Dr. Money's twin study, and the fact that he made people believe gender starts at about 6 months old. I was born during the time where everything was indiscriminate, no DNA tests at all just look at the genitals and pick. But I actually needed a surgery as what I was born with didn't allow me to expell refuse. They just never took into consideration that I was anything more than a little boy who was born a bit off.

Nowadays after the suicide of the child in the twin study, and complaints by many for surgeries they didn't want, it's not often practiced. but something partial is usually not thought of as important just like chopping off that 6th finger if you are basically male or basically female then they feel they can still make a quick tweak.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-02-2011, 09:28 AM
RE: Transgender
(10-02-2011 10:10 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  Since the mid 90's it's been much less commonly practiced to just perform sex changes to fix *deformities* in infants. Science may consider evolution important but in practice with humans none of it is very accepted. The 6th appendage, vestigial tail, etc. All sorts of variants of the current human that they just can't accept.

I'm sure in your class you learned about Dr. Money's twin study, and the fact that he made people believe gender starts at about 6 months old. I was born during the time where everything was indiscriminate, no DNA tests at all just look at the genitals and pick. But I actually needed a surgery as what I was born with didn't allow me to expell refuse. They just never took into consideration that I was anything more than a little boy who was born a bit off.

Nowadays after the suicide of the child in the twin study, and complaints by many for surgeries they didn't want, it's not often practiced. but something partial is usually not thought of as important just like chopping off that 6th finger if you are basically male or basically female then they feel they can still make a quick tweak.

Yes, thank goodness it's not common anymore. I guess I should have clarified that we were talking about back in the 60s and 70s.

We did learn about Dr. Money and his bat-shit ideas about gender o.0 Again, thank goodness nobody takes him seriously anymore.

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-04-2011, 06:10 PM (This post was last modified: 22-04-2011 07:28 PM by SoCATrueAtheist.)
RE: Transgender
I've often wondered if chimerism could be one possible explanation for transgenders. If in most chimeras the dna is not divided evenly and you find one set of dna in only one or a few organs throughout the body isn't it possible that some people might have brain tissue with a set of dna with xx chromosomes and the rest of the their body has the other set of dna with xy chromosomes (or vise versa)?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-04-2011, 07:01 PM
RE: Transgender
There are certain studies that lead towards transsexuals being different mentally than physically, though DNA is not often used in this case. It's more about the way a brain develops. I don't generally look to chimerism in describing transsexuals or intersexed people because the word is not well known. It is true that an intersexed individual may have multiple types of DNA sequences. I have not heard much about this being found in transsexuals, and I believe any who this would be found in would be considered intersex. In the case of humans, most complex patterns are infertile and a transsexual parent is just as likely as a sis-gendered parent to have any sort of child. Studies with chimerism in rats and such lead to genetic lines, it's just not generally as clear cut for gender. It has been more suggested that during gestation the mother's mood can effect these portions of their child. Gender and sexuality have never been proven to have a genetic precursor.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-04-2011, 08:08 PM
 
RE: Transgender
(11-01-2011 09:38 PM)athnostic Wrote:  I say don't judge a person until you've walked a mile in their shoes.

How is it possible to do such a thing and maintain ones own identity in order to judge? Your rhetorical passiveness is pleasant in its intention, but not actionable advice.
Quote this message in a reply
23-04-2011, 05:46 AM
RE: Transgender
it means to examine that person's life beyond your initial reaction before you get aggressive with them. Simply learning about a transsexual from a few questions will avert most of the violent reactions those who have not met one might have.

And also you can walk in someone else's shoes for a while, then you go back to being you. As an Anthropologist that is one of the main things for understanding human cultures. You need to somehow gain an insider's view at least a little and for this you have to be able to move past yourself for a while. Anthropologists spend years studying up on cultures, and then as they interact either with a living culture or remains they allow themselves to use the information they've gained and start from there. A cultural anthropologist may take a week to really gain comfort with a group they are observing.

I'm still a bit baffled by how omnipresent people suggest the self is. You can look past your own views in determining actions with some practice. Good ways of doing this are to attend many events that are out of your comfort zone, and see what you can learn from things you know nothing about.

walking a mile in someone's shoes doesn't mean changing your clothes and pronouns to understand transsexuals, or having a homosexual relationship to understand gay people. It just means observing their lives beyond this one part that seems to get you so irritated.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Lilith Pride's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: