Transgenderism, gender, and identy
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13-06-2016, 09:43 AM
RE: Transgenderism, gender, and identy
Do you know who conducted the study? I'd like to look it up.
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13-06-2016, 10:14 AM (This post was last modified: 13-06-2016 10:19 AM by dancefortwo.)
RE: Transgenderism, gender, and identy
(13-06-2016 09:43 AM)natachan Wrote:  Do you know who conducted the study? I'd like to look it up.

http://www.scottishtrans.org/wp-content/..._study.pdf

Regret because the surgery wasn't successful and regret over transitioning are two different kinds of regret but a lot of statistics don't distinguish between the two.

Edit: Here's another quick study. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19997841 Almost all studies I seen have an 8% regret rate but unlike the above from Scotland which broke that 8% down to regret over the quality of the surgery, most of the studies don't show that detail.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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13-06-2016, 10:30 AM
RE: Transgenderism, gender, and identy
As a lawyer, it should immediately have occurred to him that, even if his premise was correct (and the suicides were a result of regretting the sex change operation), that people who undergo transition do so by artificially altering their levels of hormones.

Anytime ANYONE (trans or not) artificially alters their endocrine system, there is a chance of tipping the scales in such a way that the person loses their normal ability to process feelings, often resulting in suicidal thoughts, higher chance for depression, and other related problems. This is true for those on antidepressant or "mood-stabilizing" medications, for instance.

However good we may become at the physical aspects of sex change surgery, we cannot perfectly balance the dosage for every human being-- you might react to 100 milligrams of estrogen more strongly than I do, for instance-- and as a result we should expect in ANY such regimen to have people who are adversely affected by the inherent inaccuracy of using pills that replace what a body would otherwise regulate on its own, if that part of the brain (the endocrine system) matched the sex-sense part of the brain.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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13-06-2016, 10:36 AM
RE: Transgenderism, gender, and identy
(13-06-2016 10:30 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  As a lawyer, it should immediately have occurred to him that, even if his premise was correct (and the suicides were a result of regretting the sex change operation), that people who undergo transition do so by artificially altering their levels of hormones.

Anytime ANYONE (trans or not) artificially alters their endocrine system, there is a chance of tipping the scales in such a way that the person loses their normal ability to process feelings, often resulting in suicidal thoughts, higher chance for depression, and other related problems. This is true for those on antidepressant or "mood-stabilizing" medications, for instance.

However good we may become at the physical aspects of sex change surgery, we cannot perfectly balance the dosage for every human being-- you might react to 100 milligrams of estrogen more strongly than I do, for instance-- and as a result we should expect in ANY such regimen to have people who are adversely affected by the inherent inaccuracy of using pills that replace what a body would otherwise regulate on its own, if that part of the brain (the endocrine system) matched the sex-sense part of the brain.

My daughter has her hormone levels monitored every few months. It's very important to do this and to be under a doctor's care. Some transgender people order their hormones through the internet from a website in India. They don't go through a doctor because they can't afford the cost and if their under their parents health insurance they don't want their parents to see the doctor bills and wonder what's going on.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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13-06-2016, 11:30 AM (This post was last modified: 13-06-2016 11:34 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Transgenderism, gender, and identy
(12-06-2016 09:39 PM)natachan Wrote:  I looked it up and TECHNICALLY there is a study that shows an increased risk of arrest and suicide among transitioned trans people. As compared to cisgendered people. I tend to think that this does not support my dad's conclusion. My dad is a lawyer, and a sort-of theist. He suffers from a VERY strong confirmation bias. He is also smarter than I am.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

Has anyone else read anything about the long term effects and if they support his conclusions? Because I can find nothing else to even remotely support it.

I read the study. It looks legit. But I needed to read the whole article to understand the caveats they made. And of course one potential confound is that they were all Swedes. Them fuckers ain't quite right to begin with.

(13-06-2016 10:30 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Anytime ANYONE (trans or not) artificially alters their endocrine system, there is a chance of tipping the scales in such a way that the person loses their normal ability to process feelings, often resulting in suicidal thoughts, higher chance for depression, and other related problems.

As a hypogonadal man (fellas went into retirement early). I been exogenously manipulating my testosterone for over a decade now. I understand and appreciate both the effects of excessive estrogen and excessive testosterone. Balancing the T/E ratio is individual and some handle greater variances than others.

To reinforce RocketMan's post, the goddam Limeys sentenced Turing to death by estrogen for being gay after he fucking saved the entire fucking world. ... fuckin' Brits. Humanity will never forgive you.

#sigh
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13-06-2016, 11:37 AM
RE: Transgenderism, gender, and identy
Even if transgendered people have a mental illness, that still doesn't mean that it is a bad thing. The thing is that transgendered people are just people, the function like normal people, they act like normal people, only difference is that they were born with a brain mostly different than that normally found in people born as their sex.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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13-06-2016, 12:32 PM
RE: Transgenderism, gender, and identy
I'd recommend anyone read She's a boy by Joe Holliday, although not Joe is not transgender it does explain a bit about the gender spectrum

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13-06-2016, 12:49 PM
RE: Transgenderism, gender, and identy
(13-06-2016 11:37 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Even if transgendered people have a mental illness, that still doesn't mean that it is a bad thing.

yeah. You might want to consider editing that post to ".........." little brotherman.

#sigh
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13-06-2016, 02:02 PM
RE: Transgenderism, gender, and identy
(13-06-2016 12:49 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 11:37 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Even if transgendered people have a mental illness, that still doesn't mean that it is a bad thing.

yeah. You might want to consider editing that post to ".........." little brotherman.

I said even if, implying that I don't agree with it being a mental illness.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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14-06-2016, 09:55 AM
RE: Transgenderism, gender, and identy
Quote:I looked it up and TECHNICALLY there is a study that shows an increased risk of arrest and suicide among transitioned trans people. As compared to cisgendered people.

So looking over this paper, I found several flaws. The first is the use of ICD-8 which had a run between 1965 to 1978. Back then, gender identity was not well understood.

Secondly, the study ran from 1973–2003, a span of 30 years in a small region of the world that came from one country, one culture. That's hardly representative of all trans people worldwide.

Next, socioeconomic factors, social stigma, and political backlash was not factored into these numbers at all. We can point to any group that's stigmatized, ostracized, bullied, and even violently assaulted and find higher health disparities. That's not an indication that the problems stem from their existence, but rather from external sources.

Then there's these damning quotes:

Quote:Given the nature of sex reassignment, a double blind randomized controlled study of the result after sex reassignment is not feasible. We therefore have to rely on other study designs. For the purpose of evaluating whether sex reassignment is an effective treatment for gender dysphoria, it is reasonable to compare reported gender dysphoria pre and post treatment. Such studies have been conducted either prospectively, or retrospectively, and suggest that sex reassignment of transsexual persons improves quality of life and gender dysphoria. The limitation is of course that the treatment has not been assigned randomly and has not been carried out blindly.

Quote:It is therefore important to note that the current study is only informative with respect to transsexuals persons health after sex reassignment; no inferences can be drawn as to the effectiveness of sex reassignment as a treatment for transsexualism. In other words, the results should not be interpreted such as sex reassignment per se increases morbidity and mortality.

Quote:Other facets to consider are first that this study reflects the outcome of psychiatric and somatic treatment for transsexualism provided in Sweden during the 1970s and 1980s. Since then, treatment has evolved with improved sex reassignment surgery, refined hormonal treatment, and more attention to psychosocial care that might have improved the outcome. Second, transsexualism is a rare condition and Sweden is a small country (9.2 million inhabitants in 2008). Hence, despite being based on a comparatively large national cohort and long-term follow-up, the statistical power was limited.

And finally, this quote is what these anti-trans bigots love to ignore. The conclusion:
Quote:This study found substantially higher rates of overall mortality, death from cardiovascular disease and suicide, suicide attempts, and psychiatric hospitalisations in sex-reassigned transsexual individuals compared to a healthy control population. This highlights that post surgical transsexuals are a risk group that need long-term psychiatric and somatic follow-up. Even though surgery and hormonal therapy alleviates gender dysphoria, it is apparently not sufficient to remedy the high rates of morbidity and mortality found among transsexual persons. Improved care for the transsexual group after the sex reassignment should therefore be considered.

It's not just counting suicides, but other health issues as well. It's counting health issues that aren't related to sex reassignment surgery as relevant factors (they aren't).
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