Treehuggers vs. Green Machine
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03-03-2017, 07:24 PM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2017 07:31 PM by GirlyMan.)
Treehuggers vs. Green Machine
So I read this article about the Austrian Oak and he was pointing out that as Governor the treehuggers got in his way of massive immediate investment in green energy cause they didn't want to force the Desert Tortoise into extinction.

"I said, 'OK, here's the plan: We're gonna build it from here to there.' They said, 'Whoa, whoa, whoa. . . .  It goes through the national forest here, and then it goes through the desert, and then there's the tortoise, and then there's the sheep and then it goes through this Indian burial ground,' " he says.

Schwarzenegger loses his temper, shaking his head in disbelief. "They fought us for five years before we could start building it. And then seven years after we started, it was built. Why? We could've built the fucking thing in one year!" I'm now slightly frightened. "Just shut the fuck up and let us build green energy!"

Do you think he has a point? I think the Desert Tortoise has better long term prospects with us taking a bunch of breeding pairs and taking care of them (we can make them pets and kids could paint them and build up their immune system against salmonella) than they do in China Lake.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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03-03-2017, 07:45 PM
RE: Treehuggers vs. Green Machine
Or we can ensure that the construction project is done in a way that doesn't impact their environment-- it's done all the time for other projects. Adds to the expense, yes, but so what?

Also, is there a reason the route has to be the exact route it's taking? Arnold acting like there's only one way to do this thing is absurd... and blaming the people who rightly point out issues with the quick version of the project is to miss the forest for the trees, so to speak. As near as I can tell (the article gives few details), this smacks of "the company we hired is going to make X amount of money from going a shorter, easier route, and so we're going to act like the people objecting to our shortcuts are the problem, and stall this thing with stubbornness instead of changing the plan, then blame the people who objected".

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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03-03-2017, 08:47 PM
RE: Treehuggers vs. Green Machine
(03-03-2017 07:45 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Or we can ensure that the construction project is done in a way that doesn't impact their environment-- it's done all the time for other projects. Adds to the expense, yes, but so what?

I think Arnold's point was not the additional expense, he had the funding, it was the delay. He really does seem to genuinely think that global warming is an immediate emergency and Desert Tortoises be damned, we gonna die. They gonna die anyway if we do.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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03-03-2017, 08:57 PM
RE: Treehuggers vs. Green Machine
I would have to know more details about the project.

But it reminds me of the issues w/ the wind turbines popping up everywhere.
I love birds. I am the crazy neighborhood bird lady - but I know those turbines are death machines to birds.
I love clean energy, too.
It's a freaking conundrum.

"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu."

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03-03-2017, 09:05 PM
RE: Treehuggers vs. Green Machine
(03-03-2017 08:57 PM)ShadowProject Wrote:  I would have to know more details about the project.

Sunrise Powerlink.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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03-03-2017, 09:11 PM
RE: Treehuggers vs. Green Machine
Man, that is a lot of reading.

Can't they trumpify the report - you know, a line drawing with like 2 or 3 bulleted items and some red arrows?

Smile

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03-03-2017, 10:00 PM
RE: Treehuggers vs. Green Machine
According to that article, the project is long since completed (June 2012), and the committee approved the path through the national forest after hearing the case made by the environmental group. I don't understand the issue, here.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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03-03-2017, 10:44 PM
RE: Treehuggers vs. Green Machine
(03-03-2017 10:00 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  According to that article, the project is long since completed (June 2012), and the committee approved the path through the national forest after hearing the case made by the environmental group. I don't understand the issue, here.


Governator says he had the plan in '05 and could have had it built in a year. Ground didn't break until Dec '10 like 6 years later and then took about a year. I think his point is the 5-6 year delay is inconsistent with calls for immediate emergency action.

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04-03-2017, 04:10 AM
RE: Treehuggers vs. Green Machine
(03-03-2017 10:44 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-03-2017 10:00 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  According to that article, the project is long since completed (June 2012), and the committee approved the path through the national forest after hearing the case made by the environmental group. I don't understand the issue, here.


Governator says he had the plan in '05 and could have had it built in a year. Ground didn't break until Dec '10 like 6 years later and then took about a year. I think his point is the 5-6 year delay is inconsistent with calls for immediate emergency action.

Then he's an idiot, or acting like one. Immediate, emergency action doesn't necessarily imply putting shovels in the dirt freakin' TONIGHT. That would be hasty action. What people want is the right action, started right now. That can include the planning phase, in which all the considerations that need to be addressed are examined and corrected before the project is approved to go forward. Planning is not "doing nothing". It is not delaying, either.

From what I see in the Wiki article, they did due diligence, considered the input from the environmental groups, and made the changes to minimize the impact. The Wiki article lists those updates to the plan that was finally approved. That's a Good Thing™.

We do indeed need to do something RIGHT NOW to address climate change, and that's just what California and the companies it hired did. And good for them! But Arnold's protest likely has more to do with it not happening soon enough, despite his pressure, to help his election-cycle/campaign. So he whines. But from what I see, they Did It Right™.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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04-03-2017, 04:16 AM
RE: Treehuggers vs. Green Machine
I thought this was gonna be about a battle of the bands. Sad

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