Troll influx
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24-10-2012, 09:43 AM
RE: Troll influx
(24-10-2012 09:23 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
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I'm 21. My age is irrelevant. Ato is a good example of that.
If you wanna judge people based on their age and not their worth then that is your problem.

Ato doesn't act like a grade school kid, you do. Sometimes, not all the time. Sometimes you can actually be quite insightful. Other times you just wanna throw sand in people's eyes. Like a bunch of kids in a sand box do, throw sand until someone cries.

I wish you'd grow up and quit that. It ruins all the actually interesting things you contribute. So you like to stir the pot a bit - fine. But you're spilling everything and burning things. Stirring the pot is a science all unto itself, and you're no good at it. Someone who stirs the pot with finesse actually ACHIEVES something with it. You just destroy things. Like a grade school kid.

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24-10-2012, 09:57 AM
RE: Troll influx
Quote:Ato doesn't act like a grade school kid

Yes, that was the point...

Quote:you do. Sometimes, not all the time. Sometimes you can actually be quite insightful. Other times you just wanna throw sand in people's eyes. Like a bunch of kids in a sand box do, throw sand until someone cries.

What's your point?

Quote:It ruins all the actually interesting things you contribute.

What's your point?

If the interesting things I contribute are interesting then how does saying nigga or trolling or whatever else, change that?
Does the fact that submarine propellers when under the water produce steam because the pressure deep under the water is so great that the boiling point of water is greatly reduced and so when the propellers produce steam the steam bubbles pop and that is why submarines are so noisy and easy to pick up by enemy listening devices, suddenly become uninteresting because I say nigga at the end?

Quote:So you like to stir the pot a bit - fine. But you're spilling everything and burning things. Stirring the pot is a science all unto itself, and you're no good at it. Someone who stirs the pot with finesse actually ACHIEVES something with it. You just destroy things. Like a grade school kid.

What's your point?

Quote:Im done with this thread now. I have had my say on the matter and this silly arguement im having with earmuffs is going nowhere except making us both look like a pair of little squabbling twats Coffeedrinker

You're right, it is silly. It's silly that you can't tell the difference between a genuine post and a troll.
If you'd like I can speak slowly and describe the difference between the two for you?


Going to sleep.

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24-10-2012, 10:49 AM
RE: Troll influx
(24-10-2012 09:23 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  We're not the bad guys here, it's on them how we behave. The forum just responds accordingly.

Nope. The only person who is responsible for your behavior is you. "it's on them how we behave"????? Really? I think you know that's not even remotely similar to the truth.

As for the "forums response"....I think on many occasions the forum responds, as a whole, quite inappropriately.

Just visiting.

-SR
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24-10-2012, 11:09 AM
RE: Troll influx
(24-10-2012 10:49 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  As for the "forums response"....I think on many occasions the forum responds, as a whole, quite inappropriately.

Here's my take on this:

I will take some responsibility as far as trolling new theists when they get here.

But, I have my reasons.

1) If they are a Christian, I asked them 5 questions. The questions I ask are meant to probe their understanding and knowledge of their denomination. This also lets me know how much thought they have put into their Christianity. Moreover, it answers whether or not they are going to be honest when it comes to not knowing something. I use big words on purpose.

2) My questions are also meant to stimulate conversations - through this, I can gauge what type of person they are during a discussion. I can determine arrogance and pretentiousness, humility and intelligence; I can also determine - somewhat - what their intentions are.

3) I poke and prod a little further to see if I can passively push a few buttons. The intent of this is to see if I'm going to be able to engage in controversial topics in the future without this person flipping out on me.

I've had pretty good success with this formula.

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24-10-2012, 12:06 PM (This post was last modified: 24-10-2012 12:46 PM by Anjele.)
RE: Troll influx
If a theist were to have (ahem) any chance in hell to change someone's minds, open a mind, or prove that they are not just here for a forced conversion it would be through civil conversation. There is actually a fair amount of that going on here. We may not agree but if a person is interested in give and take and can accept that others may not go along with their beliefs then we see less problems.

The drive-by preaching is just grating. Come on, post a Bible verse...add nothing to the conversation then leave...yeah, well they don't leave quickly enough.

For the ones that reappear over and over spewing the same crap...I get tense. If you watch you can see the ones that write the same no matter what name they are using. Some of these people (and I know not everyone has English as a primary language) are easily spotted because it appears they can't spell a damn thing, making them really look ignorant. They hit back over and over with their "we are all going to burn in hell" theme but don't have enough damn guts in their position/faith to answer a question or even try to explain what they are trying to say or why they believe what they do.

I get gut reactions to certain posts that just shout-troll. Usually I watch the threads to see if it's a preach and dash or if there are multiple one-liners or the fucking conspiracy wingnuts.

I generally try to saw hello to new posters. Sometimes my spidey-senses immediately tell me to move on. A lot of times I find I am correct.

Hell, we have Egor here...perhaps because he wanders pretty close to sanity now and then, although he can be nasty as hell he can also be quite funny.

KC is here and doesn't seem to take offense to questions and I feel certain he is well aware that there are people here who think he is totally full of crap. We will see how BrotherChosen or RevChosen handles the challenge. There are others that aren't defensive when asked questions but try to answer and explain why they think the way they do.

As for the infighting - to your damn corners - Bemore***Muffs.

I haven't the authority to send anyone to the naughty chair.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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24-10-2012, 12:20 PM (This post was last modified: 24-10-2012 12:24 PM by caffeinesoul.)
RE: Troll influx
(24-10-2012 09:23 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I was referring to the whole forum.

My point still stands.


(24-10-2012 09:23 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Here's another revelation for you, questioning someone's beliefs is =/= (not equal to) mugging someone at night.
If you cannot tell the difference then you sir have a few issues.

Hey, genius, mugging is anti-social behaviour. Much like having a bunch of people who know each other immediately berate some 'outsider', while paying no attention or care to who the individual they're talking to is, outside of their theistic beliefs. That was the link. I see minimal effort made by the majority of members here, to socialize and get on with theists. Even theists like "The Theist". Shit, even I'm guilty of being a cunt to IfC - though I apologized for it afterwards (and I noticed that IfC was more pleasant in his responses to me afterwards).


(24-10-2012 09:23 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Thank you for your permission to be myself.

You're welcome. Thank you for your dedication to the cause of being the type of e-thug who has little-to-no constructive purpose within a community.


(24-10-2012 09:23 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  So what? Not question theists as to why they're theists? That's why they're here.
Theists don't just decide to join an atheist forum to make friends. If they were after friends they'd hang out in their corner of the net with like minded people.


Such sweeping generalizations.

Yes, all the theists come here, not to socialize, but to have their faith tested. 100% of the time, that's the reason... and the only reason that theists come to these forums - otherwise they'd just hang out with like-minded people.

Truly, you are gifted with the ability to read minds. Are you also, by chance, omnipotent and all-knowing?


(24-10-2012 09:23 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  You're making it out like we're all a bunch of monsters. If the person is nice and rational then the forum is nice and rational back to them.
It's entirely on them if get trolled or not.
Had The Theist come on presented his arguments, people would respond, then he can rebuttal nicely etc.. and all would have been fine. But he didn't. He came on here, presented his arguments, the forum responded and rebuttaled with verbal abuse and a bunch of crap. So he in turn got a bunch of crap back.


I wasn't just talking about people like The Theist. Did you miss that when you spewed the macho cliché: "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen"? The reason I wrote my post was to suggest promoting the integration of theists into the community, before asking them questions. That goes for all theists, even ones like The Theist.


(24-10-2012 09:23 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  We're not the bad guys here, it's on them how we behave. The forum just responds accordingly.

I can't believe you actually wrote that. Are you ill? They're responsible for our actions? Are you insinuating that we have no self control? Verbal abuse may (in your mind) justify an abusive response, but it doesn't necessitate it. "Just responds accordingly"? Yeah, that's the attitude I think we need to change. Here's a hypothetical:

A theist posts a thread that explains their reasons for belief. X number of atheists post rebuttals. The theist posts a response, with abusive language. Which of the following options do you think is going to help lead to a better discussion?

1) Atheists respond with insults.
2) Atheists respond without insults.

Personally, when option number one is chosen, I see nothing but derailment and a constantly increasing number of slurs and aggression.


(24-10-2012 09:23 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  KC's beliefs are not every day Christian beliefs.
Hence, no they're not.
You can't argue the stupidity of the Vatican promoting AIDS (anti-condom = pro-aids) with KC because he agrees it's stupid.
Arguing anything the Vatican does with a Catholic however has some merit because you can show them the stupidity etc.. etc..
Basically, you have a better chance of actually getting somewhere with a random then KC.

What does the Vatican's stance on sex have to do with the existence or non-existence of a deity, or reason for belief in either position. I've never seen an "every day" Christian say, "the Vatican promotes abstinence-only education, therefore God". We're talking about theists who push theism, not theists who push abstinence-only education.

I never even asserted that KC's beliefs were those of a run-of-the-mill Christian - I said that his particular religion was irrelevant. He is a theist, he has reasons for his theism. It doesn't matter that he isn't a theist in the "every day Christian" sense; it just matters that he is a theist.

Here's another revelation for you, theism =/= (is not equal to) religion.
If you cannot tell the difference then, you sir, have a few issues.


KC's beliefs are equally valid.


(24-10-2012 09:23 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I never said that, and the quote you quoted wasn't even in that context. It wasn't even referring to us.

Perhaps I missed the point. Or perhaps you missed mine:

You convey this attitude that theists and atheists shouldn't put any effort into being social, simply because it's easy for the theist to walk away. Well that's besides the point - after all we're talking about building a community. "If you don't like it, walk away (or, "block me")" isn't the attitude to take if you want to build a community which encourages establishing a positive relationship between theists and atheists. I dunno if you realise this, but relationships are built on compromise (a concept, I imagine, that makes you shudder by it's very mention, Mr Nigga McNiggs).

Please, do let me know if I'm misinterpreting something here.


(24-10-2012 09:23 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Was said Rift player coming to your little circle jerk to troll?
Because that is the people who we're talking about, people who come here to troll.
Because in that case yes kick his Rift playing ass out.

We're talking about the people who come here to troll? What? Exclusively, that's who we're talking about? No shit! Since when? I don't recall talking exclusively about the trolls when, in response to Bemore, I wrote, "It's easy to assume these theists are all trolls when we know nothing about them and have no opportunity to socialize with them."


(24-10-2012 09:23 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  If not well then would you ask him why Rift was better (in his opinion)? Sure you would. How is that any different to us asking a theist why he's a theist?
You'd counter his arguments and offer ones of your own etc..

What I've been talking about (unbeknownst to you, it seems):

I think we should, as a community, make more of an effort to get to know theists outside of their religious beliefs. I suggest doing this by being more courteous and encouraging them to engage with us in "The Rest" of the forum, before proselytizing. Additionally, I think we should be less aggressive towards aggressive theists so that we can have better discourse. This should be policy towards all and not just the ones who troll.

Y'see, what I'm getting at is, before I tell the Rift player why (s)he's a retarded scrub n00b, I should get to know their background, hobbies etc. so that we can form a friendly relationship which will benefit any heavier discussions. You seem to be missing that point. The only point I've been trying to make.

Here's another hypothetical, even:

A theist posts a thread that explains their reasons for belief. X number of atheists post rebuttals. The theist posts a response, with abusive language. Which of the following options do you think is going to help lead to a better discussion?

1) Dismiss the theist who we barely as a troll and berate them.
2) Assume the theist is genuine, but less experienced in civil conduct, and continue to be polite and sociable.

If the theist is a troll, they won't make any effort to reform their conduct. If the theist isn't a troll, they won't have a reason to be insulting, and we'll get all get along better. What's wrong with that? Do you disagree?


(24-10-2012 09:23 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Those that want a rational conversation get it.
Those that ignore information, those that just keep repeating bible verses, those that refuse to have rational conversation get trolled/ignored.

If someone repeats themselves, that doesn't mean they're doing so maliciously, so to troll us. It could simply be that they don't fully grasp why it's nonsensical for them to repeat themselves. They will also be less inclined to accept criticism, when you present it amongst a torrent of insults.


(24-10-2012 09:23 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I don't know what you're complaining about.

Now you do, hopefully.
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24-10-2012, 12:21 PM
RE: Troll influx
(24-10-2012 12:06 PM)Anjele Wrote:  We will see how BrotherChosen or RevChosen handles the challenge.

He is way smarter than me and more educated than me.

He's also a lot more patient than me and can discuss things in more detail.

I'm a lite version of him.

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24-10-2012, 12:22 PM
RE: Troll influx
(24-10-2012 12:06 PM)Anjele Wrote:  If a theist were to have (ahem) any chance in hell to change someone's minds, open a mind, or prove that they are not just here for a forced conversion it would be through civil conversation. There is actually a fair amount of that going on here. We may not agree but if a person is interested in give and take and can accept that others may not go along with their beliefs then we see problems.

The drive-by preaching is just grating. Come on, post a Bible verse...add nothing to the conversation then leave...yeah, well they don't leave quickly enough.

For the ones that reappear over and over spewing the same crap...I get tense. If you watch you can see the ones that write the same no matter what name they are using. Some of these people (and I know not everyone has English as a primary language) are easily spotted because it appears they can't spell a damn thing, making them really look ignorant. They hit back over and over with their "we are all going to burn in hell" theme but don't have enough damn guts in their position/faith to answer a question or even try to explain what they are trying to say or why they believe what they do.

I get gut reactions to certain posts that just shout-troll. Usually I watch the threads to see if it's a preach and dash or if there are multiple one-liners or the fucking conspiracy wingnuts.

I generally try to saw hello to new posters. Sometimes my spidey-senses immediately tell me to move on. A lot of times I find I am correct.

Hell, we have Egor here...perhaps because he wanders pretty close to sanity now and then, although he can be nasty as hell he can also be quite funny.

KC is here and doesn't seem to take offense to questions and I feel certain he is well aware that there are people here who think he is totally full of crap. We will see how BrotherChosen or RevChosen handles the challenge. There are others that aren't defensive when asked questions but try to answer and explain why they think the way they do.

As for the infighting - to your damn corners - Bemore***Muffs.

I haven't the authority to send anyone to the naughty chair.

We'll have to pry Lord Erxy out of the naughty chair first, it's his favorite placeDrinking BeverageBig Grin

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24-10-2012, 12:32 PM
RE: Troll influx
(24-10-2012 12:21 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(24-10-2012 12:06 PM)Anjele Wrote:  We will see how BrotherChosen or RevChosen handles the challenge.

He is way smarter than me and more educated than me.

He's also a lot more patient than me and can discuss things in more detail.

I'm a lite version of him.

I'm going to have to work on my game. Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-10-2012, 05:33 PM
RE: Troll influx
Reading this thread made me want to hit my head against a wall. I really can't be arsed writing some long post about what I think as I feel Stark summed up my main view in one sentence;

Stark Raving Wrote:As for the "forums response"....I think on many occasions the forum responds, as a whole, quite inappropriately.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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