Trolls and Forum Quality
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14-03-2014, 12:25 AM (This post was last modified: 14-03-2014 12:31 AM by evenheathen.)
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
I don't know if Lion is gonna actually stay gone, but I have to say that I can't recall any time that he and I actually interacted in the forum. I'm probably wrong, but if we did it was so unimportant that I can't remember it. If he actually leaves because of that post, well, go me I guess.

I welcome all exchanges as long as they are genuine. Theists are more than welcome here but as I said the sign is indeed on the door. This forum is first and foremost for freethinkers. That is the entire reason that Seth created it for. Being a freethinker means that you allow any and all ideas to be considered, but not necessarily respected.

A user like Lion has no intention of considering others' opinions to have any value. He was here for one reason only, to counter the prevailing freethought at all costs. How long was he here pushing his one track thought train without any restraint other than his own failings to make sense? In his particular case, it is as it should be. He can leave with his tail between his legs because he was never officially chastised. He played by the rules and was treated fairly within the rules and he left because he knows he has nothing more to offer than bullshit.

I give props to him for staying within the lines, even if distastefully. Just goes to show that we are not the mob that he'd like to paint us as, but he is as ineffectual as his religious dogma is.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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14-03-2014, 12:26 AM
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
(13-03-2014 01:10 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  For the record, I don't think alpha male is a troll, he's just difficult.

I don't feel that Alpha Male can be considered a Troll. He and I are currently engaged in a sincere debate, which ought to disqualify him as a spammer.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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14-03-2014, 12:30 AM (This post was last modified: 14-03-2014 12:34 AM by Reltzik.)
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
... you know? I was looking forward to a conversation about improving the forum.

You know? Something where we have a serious discussion of how serious topics are getting lost amidst floods of minor back-and-forth posts over (possibly-troll-driven) trivial disputes?

Then this serious topic got derailed into flood of back and forth posts over the trivial dispute of LionIRC's rep counter.

Facepalm Facepalm Facepalm Facepalm Facepalm There aren't enough facepalms in the world.

If the problem's so pervasive that we can't even talk about the problem without the problem keeping us from talking about the problem, then the problem's won.

....

Okay, one last attempt before I give up. Brainstorming exercise. We're talking about helping the forum (the Atheism and Theism forum, specifically) rise above the crap, possibly by ignoring the crap, while still at the same time preserving and even cultivating what's awesome about it. So, what parts of it are awesome?
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14-03-2014, 12:44 AM
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
(13-03-2014 02:49 PM)alpha male Wrote:  Mostly to identify non-admin theists. Angel

I'm not a troll, and I know from prior experience that drich and Lion IRC are not trolls. One or more people above have noted that many people here are too quick to cry troll. That's absolutely correct.

I agree here. Just because I don't think someone's arguments are sound or honest doesn't mean they are automatically a troll.

Miss Meng was, to me, a blatant example of what I do not want to deal with on this forum, because of her spamming. Have a discussion with any of the above mentioned Theists and you may not like their arguments, but at least they will have a sensible adult discussion with you.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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14-03-2014, 12:54 AM
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
(14-03-2014 12:30 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  ...
Okay, one last attempt before I give up. Brainstorming exercise. We're talking about helping the forum (the Atheism and Theism forum, specifically) rise above the crap, possibly by ignoring the crap, while still at the same time preserving and even cultivating what's awesome about it. So, what parts of it are awesome?

'Tis simple, young sir, and we've been over this ground before.

There is a natural clash between the two main reasons for this forum's existence:

1. Discussion and debate
2. Community.

A troll appears and our community immunity system springs into action (goes on the aTaq!).

The problem, as already highlighted is the false positive, so for example, a very enjoyable thread about objective morality gets interrupted by Taq kinda saying that Chippy is a troll and should not be afforded any kind of respect.

Equally, vulnerable people here for love, companionship and support feel threatened or others feel simple annoyed (as per the OP) by the trolls.

After previous debates on this subject, we turned to Seth's description of the site (as a whole) being a community.

But this does not resolve things as the forum is still a discussion arena within the overall community.

Past attempts to ease the situation have resulted in creation of the Personal Issues and Support section (with its protection rules) and more recently the Melee and Colosseum etc.

Chas and I will never agree on this.
Him with his big game hunter, 'shoot the trolls' approach.
Me with my free-speech trumps all dogma.
(I'm here to learn and cannot learn anything from those who agree with me).

This post now should have a poignant, moving and eloquent summary but...

I ain't got one!

Big Grin

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14-03-2014, 01:03 AM
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
Discussions where posters respond directly to questions, or admit they don't know the answers instead of changing topics every time they face unfamiliar territory.

I figure rep is a point system for staying on topic, and intellectual honesty ("I don't know" or research instead of flubbing it) and don't feel rep points are a popularity contest: The majority of posters seem interested in participating in a discussion.

On the other hand, when "Because the Bible" folks get involved in a debate, and refuse to entertain or provide arguments from anything but scripture, and threads go downhill fast.

And I don't think that needs to be accommodated. There are forums specifically for discussing scripture.

It's wearing: Some folks are here to recite scripture, ignore evidence, and run the thread out of patience by paraphrasing the same argument ad nauseum, then claim "victory".

Adding a "new thread" limit to posters below, say, 10 rep would significantly cut down on the number of parrot and copy pasta threads, and I believe even a short freeze on in-thread responses after negative rep would cut down on the number of rephrased identical responses without reviewing objections.

β€œIt is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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14-03-2014, 01:08 AM (This post was last modified: 14-03-2014 01:16 AM by evenheathen.)
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
(14-03-2014 12:30 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  Okay, one last attempt before I give up. Brainstorming exercise. We're talking about helping the forum (the Atheism and Theism forum, specifically) rise above the crap, possibly by ignoring the crap, while still at the same time preserving and even cultivating what's awesome about it. So, what parts of it are awesome?

Sorry, I got caught up in that. But I agree. What parts are awesome?

Nothing at this point. The A&T section has been overrun by disingenuous users who don't have any intention of serious debate. That is part of the problem. The other part of the problem is that we've let these users overcome the discussions to a degree that our most valuable members don't even bother with responses anymore, because the level of conversation isn't worth bothering with. It's just petty responses to petty nonsense.

I've seen few and far between any boner worthy posts by any of our esteemed members as of late, and I dare say it's because the level of discussion has degraded to the point of disinterest. I also dare say that we have allowed bullshit artists to inundate this forum.

edit: I am a bullshit artist, so I don't know what I'm going on about. This free speech thing sure is biting us in the ass though.......what can we expect? America is based on the same principle and look how well we're doing with it.... Tongue

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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14-03-2014, 01:15 AM
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
(14-03-2014 01:08 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(14-03-2014 12:30 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  Okay, one last attempt before I give up. Brainstorming exercise. We're talking about helping the forum (the Atheism and Theism forum, specifically) rise above the crap, possibly by ignoring the crap, while still at the same time preserving and even cultivating what's awesome about it. So, what parts of it are awesome?

Sorry, I got caught up in that. But I agree. What parts are awesome?

Nothing at this point. The A&T section has been overrun by disingenuous users who don't have any intention of serious debate. That is part of the problem. The other part of the problem is that we've let these users overcome the discussions to a degree that our most valuable members don't even bother with responses anymore, because the level of conversation isn't worth bothering with. It's just petty responses to petty nonsense.

I've seen few and far between any boner worthy posts by any of our esteemed members as of late, and I dare say it's because the level of discussion has degraded to the point of disinterest. I also dare say that we have allowed bullshit artists to inundate this forum.

Bullshit artists?
I must say until recently I have always been a lurker in the atheism and theism forum bc I want to soak up information but I don't feel I am smart enough to participate. Lately it seems to have become the dumpster of TTA :/

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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14-03-2014, 01:16 AM
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
(14-03-2014 01:08 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(14-03-2014 12:30 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  Okay, one last attempt before I give up. Brainstorming exercise. We're talking about helping the forum (the Atheism and Theism forum, specifically) rise above the crap, possibly by ignoring the crap, while still at the same time preserving and even cultivating what's awesome about it. So, what parts of it are awesome?

Sorry, I got caught up in that. But I agree. What parts are awesome?

Nothing at this point. The A&T section has been overrun by disingenuous users who don't have any intention of serious debate. That is part of the problem. The other part of the problem is that we've let these users overcome the discussions to a degree that our most valuable members don't even bother with responses anymore, because the level of conversation isn't worth bothering with. It's just petty responses to petty nonsense.

I've seen few and far between any boner worthy posts by any of our esteemed members as of late, and I dare say it's because the level of discussion has degraded to the point of disinterest. I also dare say that we have allowed bullshit artists to inundate this forum.

Okay then, let me expand on the subject of the brainstorming. In what ways was it awesome, and in what ways would you like it to be awesome in the future?
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14-03-2014, 01:17 AM
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
I feel like I'm also on the short end of the stick where intellect is concerned...
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