Trolls and Forum Quality
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13-03-2014, 12:17 PM
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
(13-03-2014 12:13 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  I don't know why some people have named SlimJim as a troll... Of all her posts I haven't seen anything I would consider to be trolling.

Because in working her way out of religious indoctrination her questions were framed by that background.

Which is exactly the same way disingenuous trollholes like to open. So, a false positive, basically.

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13-03-2014, 12:17 PM
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
(13-03-2014 11:56 AM)cjlr Wrote:  True say, but troll OPs have also lead to some of the longest and most involved threads here.

You never know.

Yes, but some types of food poisoning have led to some of the longest and most involved vomit clean-ups.

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13-03-2014, 12:23 PM
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
(13-03-2014 12:16 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  For myself, I think the big fix won't be ignoring the trolls. That just lets them post crap unanswered, and also invites false positives. If anything, I think the solution is to not ask whether they're trolls. If they post a halfway-logical argument, break it down on its merits and show its flaws. Do that whether they're a troll or not.

I'd say that actually happens far more often than not, no?

There're plenty of times when someone's said something to the effect that "I know the OP won't listen, but perhaps somebody reading along may find this of interest.."

(13-03-2014 12:16 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  But doesn't that feed the trolls? Well, feeding them can produce something of value. Let's say a troll posts a variant on the presuppositionalist argument to get a rise. We respond with a breakdown of the argument's flaws, either original or linked. Have we fed the troll? Yes. But we've also produced something of value. And in balance, I think doing both is better than doing neither... in part, because a measured, cool response is a pretty slim diet for a troll. (Of course, responding with attacks instead is a wonderful troll diet and produces absolutely nothing of value, so yeah, I agree, blank that out.)

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(13-03-2014 12:16 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  The problem is the free-riders, so to speak, the people who want to enjoy this forum without working to make it better. Or the ones who just enjoy being combative for its own sake, and prefer that to producing something of value. I have no idea what to about them.

I think "free rider" is an entirely unfair term. A forum is literally (like, etymologically and everything) public, so - so what? Some people make their various contributions and some people just take things in.

And some people are just assholes, but the forum team can and do swing the banhammer.
(which personally I'd say could be hefted slightly more regularly, but then, there are always those whose thoughtless kneejerk "lol free speech everywhere should be 4chan" makes even raising the subject tedious)

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13-03-2014, 12:31 PM
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
(13-03-2014 12:23 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I think "free rider" is an entirely unfair term. A forum is literally (like, etymologically and everything) public, so - so what? Some people make their various contributions and some people just take things in.

Okay, not the best choice of terms. I was trying to think of a phrase where some people are trying to make the community a better place, and others are just sitting around poo-pooing them, but everyone enjoys (or suffers) due to the effort (or lack thereof).
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13-03-2014, 12:35 PM
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
I'm all for letting the trolls have their space, I think some of their shit is a necessary evil so we can keep the whole "free speech" thing working.
However, there are cases in which I feel the forum mods are too lenient, borderline negligent, with trolls. Meng is a clear case, when a user spams the forum, is clear after several pages that doesn't want to engage in any form of meaningful conversation, and even starts to claim to be the webmaster and supervisor of the site, it's time to swing the ban hammer with all its power.

Some trolls are harder to spot I&I threaded that line really well and he hide behind the benefit of the doubt, and that's fine. But when obvious troll is obvious, then not banning them hurts the forum in general for no legitimate reason

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13-03-2014, 12:36 PM
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
What pisses me off the most is that people humor this sad excuse for a troll,threads of these theistic and pseudo "agnostic" trolls is like wildfire! there seems to be no end to them.

I have noticed that there are 3 types of trolls out here :-

1) Obvious trolls like @alpha male and @dirch
2) "Agnostic" Trolls leaving vague responses and often avoiding tough questions
3) Trolls who simply spam like @miss meng

I was really enjoying myself here but recently the trolls have almost sabotaged everything on Atheism section... you can find like 10 troll topics for every 2 legit ones that's not a good figure and the only one to blame is the community which seems to love egging these types of random troll threads,many people here are clearly 18+ and they still can't help but feed the obvious trolls.

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13-03-2014, 12:47 PM
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
She was fun for a minute. But I think it's safe to say everyone is tired of getting on and seeing nothing but troll posts.

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13-03-2014, 12:51 PM
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
Why not just make it forum policy that no theists are allowed unless they publically and regularly confess their inner doubts about the existence of God and affirm that they are here to learn stuff from the wisest human beings on the planet - atheists.
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13-03-2014, 12:54 PM
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
(13-03-2014 12:51 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  Why not just make it forum policy that no theists are allowed unless they publically and regularly confess their inner doubts about the existence of God and affirm that they are here to learn stuff from the wisest human beings on the planet - atheists.

Yeah, but then we'd have to ban our admin.

Theism and jackassery aren't strictly overlapping sets, though at times you'd have a hard time discerning that given the shitbaggers a forum like this tends to attract.

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13-03-2014, 12:55 PM
RE: Trolls and Forum Quality
(13-03-2014 11:38 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  The recent cascade of Miss Meng related threads have really frustrated me. I get annoyed from time to time on the forum, but not like this. This has made me genuinely angry.

When I signed up for this forum, I was really impressed with some of the posters here. Many of them contributed to my deconversion, the biggest and most wonderful life change I have ever made. I have a passion for well written posts and comments, because I hope to do for someone else what was done for me. I have a deep passion for what we talk about here, and I believe that is has real world consequences for those who show up to read what we have written.

It seems more and more often when I open the "Atheism and Theism" category, I have to wade through troll after troll just to get to a decent thread. We are plagued by a small but incessant group of religious trolls who spam their sermon feces and quotations of scripture like its a drive by shooting. They don't even pretend to promote discussion. They don't read what we write out of interest, but rather to spam responses of similar quality to their threads. They are either aware that they cannot win an argument with an Atheist, are afraid to try, or they post out of a need to feel that they have done all they can for the souls of us ungodly heathens. They are not contributing to this community, they are shitting all over it.

I can't possibly be the only person who feels that their experience here has lost some of its quality because these posters are allowed to continue. I do not know if anything can be done via moderators about this, but I believe there is something we can all do to improve the situation. For this to work, people would have to decide voluntarily to get on board.

1. I think everyone should utterly ignore troll posts. If it looks like a troll, leave it blank. Let't cast our vote for what kind of discussion we want to have here, and lets do it by leaving every single troll post fucking blank as a sheet of printer paper.

2. I think we should replace these waste of space threads with intelligent, well written, topical threads of our own. We can busy ourselves by promoting debate, discussion, research, questioning, and essentially learning. Honestly, I don't care if we go over the same issues multiple times. I would prefer a thousand well written repeats than a single troll post.

Is there anyone else who feels that this is a problem that needs to be addressed? Are my solutions worth a try? What do you think we should do?

Hand me the fucking banhammer and I will solve the problem. Yes

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