Trouble on London Bridge
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04-06-2017, 11:11 AM
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
(04-06-2017 11:03 AM)bemore Wrote:  I know I make it sound so simple and understand its not so black and white.

I'm just pissed off with this shit. Not only here but in other countries which face even more frequent and violent incidents.

Something needs to be done and the only people who can sort this are Muslims themselves.

Apart from your above propositions, I'm at least partly with you. Someone already known to be a potential danger shouldn't get arrested if they did nothing wrong, but they shouldn't get the chance to plan and execute an attack either.

It's beyond me, what all this surveillance is for when it's able to identify possible attackers and they still get the opportunity to treat themselves to nail bombs, as was the case in Manchester or to socialise and plan an attack, as it happens yesterday. One might think, they would be able to capture them at the doorstep, going out with their bomb and not after the deed has been already done.

We gave up a lot of rights to our privacy and it proves that all of this ain't worth shit, apart from them telling us afterwards that they already had the attackers on the radar. That's not crime or terror prevention. That's just snooping without making society any safer.

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04-06-2017, 11:12 AM
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
(04-06-2017 11:03 AM)bemore Wrote:  I know I make it sound so simple and understand its not so black and white.

I'm just pissed off with this shit. Not only here but in other countries which face even more frequent and violent incidents.

Something needs to be done and the only people who can sort this are Muslims themselves.

I don't understand what's holding Muslims back from condemning the attacks . Perhaps fear of being called an apostate.

But they must realise, remaining silent only creates issues for them as others will assume that the Muslims (moderate ones) support the terrorists and crimes against them will begin to be committed.

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04-06-2017, 11:16 AM
Trouble on London Bridge
(04-06-2017 11:03 AM)bemore Wrote:  Something needs to be done and the only people who can sort this are Muslims themselves.

That's not going to happen. Most Muslims support this garbage even if they don't have the guts to do it themselves. They smile in secret.

How do I know this? There have been many polls on how Muslims feel about this sort of thing and most are sympathetic.

The ones that actually don't support it aren't true followers of Islam.

Now before anyone gets upset about what I said, I don't have anything against Arabs or middle-eastern people. I'm not racist towards them in any way. What I don't like is the religion that promotes this butchery.
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04-06-2017, 11:17 AM
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
(04-06-2017 11:12 AM)Cypher44 Wrote:  I don't understand what's holding Muslims back from condemning the attacks .

Read the news and not just the headlines. They always condemn the attack. In fact, with the Westminster attack, the muslims of London were the first to start a fundraiser for the victims and their families. It has been reported, just not splashed over the headlines.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/mu...38c6302154

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/pol...45396.html

Just two reports. There are many more.

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04-06-2017, 11:28 AM
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
(04-06-2017 11:03 AM)bemore Wrote:  Something needs to be done and the only people who can sort this are Muslims themselves.

Well, that's the salient point, isn't it?

The vast majority of terrorist attacks by Islamists are directed against fellow Muslims. Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30883058

Until they - and yes, I'm painting all Muslims with this brush - have the courage to call out those who are extolling violence, there seems little that the West can do.
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04-06-2017, 11:34 AM
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
I guess we also need to understand how the ideology spreads. Killing people will make them martyrs which breeds new terrorists, but how to kill the ideology is the million dollar question

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04-06-2017, 11:37 AM
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
(04-06-2017 10:10 AM)kim Wrote:  Hey there JohnnyB - long time, no see. Where the fuck you been? Shy

Smoking cannabis, eating omelettes, and playing guitar! Thumbsup

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04-06-2017, 11:44 AM
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
(04-06-2017 11:34 AM)Cypher44 Wrote:  I guess we also need to understand how the ideology spreads. Killing people will make them martyrs which breeds new terrorists, but how to kill the ideology is the million dollar question

I imagine it's pretty tough to get people to reconsider their own inherent ideologies, especially when they're based in something like faith. (Politics is like this too.)

I was in France last year and I noticed that the majority of men trying to sell trinkets (little Eiffel Towers, baubles and whatnot) to tourists appeared to be from the Middle East.

Their lives must be absolute shit.

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(Note: I didn't take these photos, nor do I own them, but they're indicative of the vendors I'm speaking about.)

Is it any wonder that they yearn for something more, something in a glorious afterlife?

I don't think it would take much convincing for some of the more weak-minded among them to be suckered in by Daesh propaganda and promises of an eternity of bliss if they'd blow themselves up.
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04-06-2017, 11:44 AM
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
(04-06-2017 10:55 AM)bemore Wrote:  I feel that everyone on the intelligence agencies watchlists should be arrested.

Anyone who is identified as going abroad and recieving training be deported and if their British, put into concentration camps.

Hmm ... Consider I can't really go with the concentration camp idea but, I have no problem at all with a delightfully long prison stay.

And, I don't think I'd deport anyone - just stick with imprisonment. Once they are in prison and contact is broken, the money flow is broken, too. That generally grinds everything to a halt. Also, when someone comes to visit the prisoner, that could be the beginning of an information trail which needs to be dogedly persued.

(04-06-2017 10:55 AM)bemore Wrote:  The Muslim community should be doing more, even at the sniff of extremism they should report the individual.

As reported previously, many muslims are reporting however, the ball seems to be dropped in the follow up. The authorities need to go hard if they want the public to follow suit.

Also, incentive is incentive - if a Muslim reports an extremist, he should be given the "Muslim of the Week" award - a congratulations gift card Sainsbury's - something - a free bus or tube pass for six months, even. Shy

(04-06-2017 10:55 AM)bemore Wrote:  Fuck Islam.

Religion of peace my arse!!!!!

Here, we are in complete agreement. For me, it includes all religion... wouldn't want to discriminate. Wink

I don't care about anyone's "faith", per se but, my basic distaste for religion itself has reached a point of intolerance. Where it used to be just silly and annoying, it has taken the extremist turn into dangerous and deadly.

RELIGION POISONS EVERYTHING
... including my own enjoyment of studying and referencing it. Undecided

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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04-06-2017, 12:41 PM
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
(04-06-2017 10:55 AM)bemore Wrote:  I feel that everyone on the intelligence agencies watchlists should be arrested.
And then put in Room 101 until they really love Big Brother?

(04-06-2017 10:55 AM)bemore Wrote:  Anyone who is identified as going abroad and recieving training be deported and if their British, put into concentration camps.
Any sort of training? Or just military training? Wouldn't this apply to members of the British armed forces?

(04-06-2017 10:55 AM)bemore Wrote:  The Muslim community should be doing more,even at the sniff of extremism they should report the individual.

What if they report non-Muslim extremists? Is that enough for Thinkpol to pull in a Christian or a Hindu or an atheist or a Jedi to "help them with their inquiries"?

I am not a Muslim, but can I report you anyway because your first sentence looks somewhat extreme to me?

“I am not responsible for actions of the imaginary version of me you have inside your head.” - John Scalzi

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