Trouble on London Bridge
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04-06-2017, 12:43 PM
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
(04-06-2017 11:44 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  ...
I was in France last year and I noticed that the majority of men trying to sell trinkets (little Eiffel Towers, baubles and whatnot) to tourists appeared to be from the Middle East.
...
[Image: 222_QW-20140117-0066.jpg]

(Note: I didn't take these photos, nor do I own them, but they're indicative of the vendors I'm speaking about.)
...

It may well have changed since I was living there but that second picture is reminiscent of what I remember.

In which case it would be Algeria rather than the Middle East.

Algeria before independence was part of the French colonial empire and as such, iirc, Algerians have freedom of movement to/from France.

Having said that, Algerians are not far off 100% adherents to Islam... mainly Sufi if memory serves, so even though they've gone through the usual inner turmoils that you'd expect from an ex-colony, dissatisfaction has historically been turned inward rather than outward.

Unsure

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04-06-2017, 01:30 PM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2017 01:36 PM by tomilay.)
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
(04-06-2017 11:34 AM)Cypher44 Wrote:  I guess we also need to understand how the ideology spreads. Killing people will make them martyrs which breeds new terrorists, but how to kill the ideology is the million dollar question

If the violent ideology existed in a vacuum, I would say ban the Holy Quran. It doesn't. There must be a reason, outside of a shared belief in a desert prophet, that the terror attacks are perpetrated by Sunnis(most of them of ME origin) but not Shias.

A good place to start maybe a recent history of the Middle East from the end of the Ottoman Empire.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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04-06-2017, 01:41 PM
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
(04-06-2017 01:30 PM)tomilay Wrote:  If the violent ideology existed in a vacuum, I would say ban the Holy Quran. It doesn't. There must be a reason, outside of a shared belief in a desert prophet...

That's the point I was trying to make earlier. These young men - and they're almost always young men - appear to have no decent future ahead of them. Economically disadvantaged, socially restricted, upward mobility pretty much a non-starter.

Do you see wealthy Sunnis or Shias blowing themselves up? It's always the disenfranchised that are the most desperate. The fact that Daesh uses religion - the Death Cult of Mohammed - as a tool to get those young men and boys to do their bidding is just a tactic.
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04-06-2017, 01:43 PM
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
(04-06-2017 01:30 PM)tomilay Wrote:  If the violent ideology existed in a vacuum, I would say ban the Holy Quran. It doesn't. There must be a reason, outside of a shared belief in a desert prophet, that the terror attacks are perpetrated by Sunnis(most of them of ME origin) but not Shias.

A good place to start maybe a recent history of the Middle East from the end of the Ottoman Empire.

Not only that. Since all of the perpertrators of recent years have been domestic terrorists, citizens of the particular nations, we also have to look at what drove them to radicalize themselves.

Partly they have been petty criminals before they turned to terror. Partly they are unemployed and undereducated youths, seeing not future for themselves. Someone's targeting them, picks them up and offers them something society obviously can't offer. It's not sufficient to look for the ones actually doing the attacks, but the ones picking them up from the street to ingrain their message into their heads.

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04-06-2017, 01:48 PM
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
I've been watching the coverage on TV and on social media. You notice very quickly how Muslims don't react first with solidarity but worry about their own, special minority image. 'This attack is worrying, I'm worried about the backlash against Muslims'. Backlash? A MUSLIM TERRORIST from your communities has slaughtered 22 teenagers last week, 7 people yesterday and have caused the worst nightmares for the entire country. And you worry about your 'Islamaphobia'? Eww, just fucking eww.

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04-06-2017, 02:01 PM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2017 02:06 PM by abaris.)
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
(04-06-2017 01:48 PM)izel Wrote:  I've been watching the coverage on TV and on social media. You notice very quickly how Muslims don't react first with solidarity but worry about their own, special minority image. 'This attack is worrying, I'm worried about the backlash against Muslims'. Backlash? A MUSLIM TERRORIST from your communities has slaughtered 22 teenagers last week, 7 people yesterday and have caused the worst nightmares for the entire country. And you worry about your 'Islamaphobia'? Eww, just fucking eww.

Ironically the first link of muslims condemning the attack comes from the Sun.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3719568/lo...s-ramadan/

The Evening Standard

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/at...56406.html

And in other news this



http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/04/vandals-pa...k-6684194/

Not on the same level (yet), but I sure hope noone has any understanding for it nonetheless.

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04-06-2017, 02:10 PM
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
(04-06-2017 02:01 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(04-06-2017 01:48 PM)izel Wrote:  I've been watching the coverage on TV and on social media. You notice very quickly how Muslims don't react first with solidarity but worry about their own, special minority image. 'This attack is worrying, I'm worried about the backlash against Muslims'. Backlash? A MUSLIM TERRORIST from your communities has slaughtered 22 teenagers last week, 7 people yesterday and have caused the worst nightmares for the entire country. And you worry about your 'Islamaphobia'? Eww, just fucking eww.

Ironically the first link of muslims condemning the attack comes from the Sun.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3719568/lo...s-ramadan/

The Evening Standard

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/at...56406.html

And in other news this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/...ng-target/

Or this

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/04/vandals-pa...k-6684194/

Not on the same level (yet), but I sure hope noone has any understanding for it nonetheless.

No, just no...
Quote:Muslim Council of Britain: 'Attack during Ramadan shows they respect neither life nor faith'


Defensive criticism doesn't do it anymore. Just say it for what it is.
Here is an example.
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04-06-2017, 02:10 PM
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
This

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/hom...71796.html

This

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/04/muslims-ap...s-6683809/

This

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/11...or-attack/

Maybe social media isn't that reliable after all.

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04-06-2017, 02:12 PM
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
(04-06-2017 02:10 PM)izel Wrote:  Defensive criticism doesn't do it anymore. Just say it for what it is.
Here is an example.

Read the full stories, will you?

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04-06-2017, 02:24 PM
RE: Trouble on London Bridge
What we will all get out of this thing is internet censorship.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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