True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
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24-07-2016, 12:01 PM
True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
I know that endless spiritual claims made by people are usually debunked or end up having rational explanations for them, but as far as I know anyway the two cases I am posting below have never been explained. Now like many atheists I have talked too over the years I have tried things that are claimed by many to open doors to the supernatural world guaranteed such as the Ouija Board and other types of things many times and of course nothing ever happened. And even if something did happen I am sure there would be another explanation for it besides the supernatural. However these two cases are brought up a lot as proof by people because there has never been an explanation for them. Other than what believers in the supernatural believe it to be. And I am not just saying believers in god because there are many people who believe in spiritual things but not in a god. Anyway does anyone know if either of these cases below were ever debunked in some way or had another explanation for what happened?

Teresita Basa's Ghost Named her Killer
Did Apparition Communicate with Mrs. Chua or Possess Her?

There are documented cases of the deceased's communications being involved in court cases and of spirit possession. This case might involve both phenomena.

On February 21, 1977 Chicago police officers found the body of Philippine born Teresita Basa lying on the floor of her apartment, stabbed to death and partially burned. She was a popular respiratory therapist at Edgewater Hospital. The initial suspect was her boyfriend, but after interviewing him, police realized he wasn’t her killer. Solving the case was dead-ended until Basa’s spirit named her killer.

Basa’s Ghost Contacts Mrs. Chua
Four months after the crime, Chua, who also worked at the hospital, went into an altered state of consciousness, ASC, and spoke in Tagalong, a dialect of her native Philippine language. The voice said she was Basa and that co-worker Allan Showery murdered her because he stole her jewelry.
When Chua came out of her ASC, she remembered nothing. Her husband, Dr. Jose Chua, was baffled and frightened by the incident. During the next communication, Basa said that Showery had her jewelry and gave her pearl cocktail ring to his common-law wife. After the third incident, Jose contacted the police.

Police Investigation of Basa’s Murder
The detectives handling the case, Joseph Stachula and Lee Epplen, were skeptical but wanted to follow up on all leads. The autopsy revealed Basa was a virgin. They asked Chua if Basa had been raped to test her. The answer was "no."

The Chuas told the men about Showery and the stolen jewelry. They searched Showery’s apartment and found Basa’s jewelry. When Showery was arrested and told about the evidence, he signed confessions admitting to murdering Basa and stealing her jewelry. The case was officially closed in August 1977, but unofficially, it continued.

The Media was Involved in Basa Case
Managing editor of the Philippine Herald, Gus Bernardes, knew the Chuas. He delved into the case and learned about other bizarre events related to the murder. Chua told colleagues she had seen Basa’s apparition. Several co-workers complained about Chua's behavior during the week before the case broke. She went into ASCs during which she would sing in Basa’s voice.

There were baffling changes in Chua’s personality. She had been a good employee, but became insubordinate and ultimately, she was fired. She seemed to be possessed by Basa’s spirit at times. The Herald published the information in August. Later, the Chicago Tribune ran the story as an item of interest on its front page as Showery was coming to trial. He was convicted of murder and received a fourteen year prison sentence which ended the criminal aspect of the case.

Basa Case – Apparition, Possessor or Both?
According to survival theory, an apparition is that part of a person that survives death of the physical body. They have intelligence, can communicate and can appear in dreams or when the recipient is awake. The Greenbrier Phantom, Zona Heaster, appeared to her mother one night to tell her that husband, Edward Shue, killed her. James Chaffin wrote a new will and hid it, but died in an accident before he could tell others about the document. His apparition told his son, James, about the will and where it could be found.

The case of the spirit of Mary Roff possessing Lurancy Vennum is sometimes referred to as the Watseka Wonder and is probably the most well known one of this type of possession. When Mary possessed Lurancy, Mary recalled many things that happened during her life and knew the Roffs and their friends. Mary even once mentioned a mark on her arm before remembering that was on her other body which was buried in another part of town.

Whether the case is about spirit communication, possession or both, Basa was able to reveal that Showery killed her and stole her jewelry, leading to his conviction.
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24-07-2016, 12:52 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
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24-07-2016, 12:55 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
I might be impressed if Mrs Chua named some random person who DIDN'T also work at the hospital as the killer but here you have three people working in the same hospital. They probably knew each other and one of them spills some information that X stole jewelry from the dead woman. Not impressed.

And "altered state of consciousness" isn't impressive either. I do that every night for about 8 hours.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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24-07-2016, 01:01 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
Yeah no...

Nice try tho..

I do enjoy a good ghost story.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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24-07-2016, 01:04 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
Might make an interesting movie but more likely a good ghost story for around the campfire, but it's all BS.

Chua had information but didn't want to reveal how she had the information so she went into her alleged altered states of consciousness.

I am a confessed true crime junkie...there is too much information missing in this narrative.

As for Did Apparition Communicate with Mrs. Chua or Possess Her? , neither...that stuff doesn't happen. It's not a thing.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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24-07-2016, 01:05 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
Guess I did not make myself clear. Does anyone know if these cases were debunked or if an alternative explanation was ever given?
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24-07-2016, 01:16 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
(24-07-2016 01:05 PM)prhill Wrote:  Guess I did not make myself clear. Does anyone know if these cases were debunked or if an alternative explanation was ever given?

Doesn't have to be debunked.

I'm guessing the cops who investigated know what happened. The narrative makes it seem like the cops sat with their thumbs up their assholes and did nothing except to say, "yup Zeb, it's a dead body,"

"gee whiz, I've never seen one before, what do you think happened Cleetus?"

"No clue Zeb, I'm not sure what to do next...maybe call a cleaning lady to sop up the blood?"

"Cleetus, maybe we should call that fancy guy who rides in that white truck with dem fancy words on the side."

"A doctor won't help Zeb, if only there be someone to look at dead people and learns what they died of" Cleetus replies scratching his chin thoughtfully and remembering he forgot to shave that morning. "Well Zeb, let's go to the diner for lunch -- nothing to do here."

Dodgy


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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24-07-2016, 01:23 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
(24-07-2016 01:05 PM)prhill Wrote:  Guess I did not make myself clear. Does anyone know if these cases were debunked or if an alternative explanation was ever given?

That implies that spirit communication is a reasonable explanation in the first place. The cases involve people who worked and/or lived near each other and, from the limited info provided, it sounds like they could have had some knowledge or suspicion about the events. Even if there were specific details that they could not have known they could have guessed and been lucky; these reports always seem to gloss over a lot so it's hard to say how much was right, how much was vague enough to be claimed as right by people who want to believe, and how much may have been ignored because it was wrong.

If these people really did have accurate, verifiable information that they could not possibly have know or guessed then the most we can say is that we don't understand how they gained that information. Not having a better explanation doesn't make spirit communication a default answer any more than it makes sense to believe that they got the information from aliens, alternate dimensions, gods, or leprechauns. There is no need to have another option in order to not accept that ghosts is the answer.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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24-07-2016, 01:35 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
(24-07-2016 01:05 PM)prhill Wrote:  Guess I did not make myself clear. Does anyone know if these cases were debunked or if an alternative explanation was ever given?

Yes there was. It was determined that it was Mr. Mustard in the Study with the Candlestick.

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“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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24-07-2016, 01:36 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
(24-07-2016 01:35 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(24-07-2016 01:05 PM)prhill Wrote:  Guess I did not make myself clear. Does anyone know if these cases were debunked or if an alternative explanation was ever given?

Yes there was. It was determined that it was Mr. Mustard in the Study with the Candlestick.

That's Colonel Mustard if you please!

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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