True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
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24-07-2016, 03:03 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
If I pegged you wrong, my bad. See unfogged's post for reasons.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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24-07-2016, 03:05 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
(24-07-2016 03:03 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  If I pegged you wrong, my bad. See unfogged's post for reasons.

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24-07-2016, 03:17 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
(24-07-2016 02:36 PM)prhill Wrote:  Fair enough here you go

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992-...estigators

That's a brief article about a book about the incident, it isn't what you quoted from. I would be very skeptical about any popularization of a strange case like that since I'd expect it to be a bit loose with the facts in order to be more sensational and make more money.

Do you think spirit communication is a plausible explanation?

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24-07-2016, 03:19 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
(24-07-2016 03:17 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(24-07-2016 02:36 PM)prhill Wrote:  Fair enough here you go

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992-...estigators

That's a brief article about a book about the incident, it isn't what you quoted from. I would be very skeptical about any popularization of a strange case like that since I'd expect it to be a bit loose with the facts in order to be more sensational and make more money.

Do you think spirit communication is a plausible explanation?

I personally do not believe in spirit communication, but that does not make me right either.
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24-07-2016, 04:20 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
(24-07-2016 12:01 PM)prhill Wrote:  Anyway does anyone know if either of these cases below were ever debunked in some way or had another explanation for what happened?

The case, you mention two only related information on one, was likely never debunked because it was never particularly high-profile. Something lodged in the back of page 8 next to an ad for stain remover. Decades later it's been ressurected by somebody going "OMG! It was never debunked! Must be supernatural!"

Showery, Chua and Basa all worked together, so the most likely explanation is that Chua had some sort of information by a much more mundane route than talking to the sprits of the deceased.

Aside from the fact that "life after death" is a contradiction of terms, there's a simple way to demonstrate that "talking to spirits" is pure nonsense. If it were real, if there was any way you could do this without committing fraud, it would be worth enormous amounts of money. From five more minutes speaking to the dearly departed to contesting a billionaire's will, people would pay vast sums to speak with the dead. That means that some greedy corporation somewhere would have done it by now. The fact that they haven't pretty much tells you that they can't.

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24-07-2016, 04:27 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
(24-07-2016 04:20 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(24-07-2016 12:01 PM)prhill Wrote:  Anyway does anyone know if either of these cases below were ever debunked in some way or had another explanation for what happened?

The case, you mention two only related information on one, was likely never debunked because it was never particularly high-profile. Something lodged in the back of page 8 next to an ad for stain remover. Decades later it's been ressurected by somebody going "OMG! It was never debunked! Must be supernatural!"

Showery, Chua and Basa all worked together, so the most likely explanation is that Chua had some sort of information by a much more mundane route than talking to the sprits of the deceased.

Aside from the fact that "life after death" is a contradiction of terms, there's a simple way to demonstrate that "talking to spirits" is pure nonsense. If it were real, if there was any way you could do this without committing fraud, it would be worth enormous amounts of money. From five more minutes speaking to the dearly departed to contesting a billionaire's will, people would pay vast sums to speak with the dead. That means that some greedy corporation somewhere would have done it by now. The fact that they haven't pretty much tells you that they can't.

Great points. The only reason this particular case fascinates me is because I have known some police officers over the years and they still talk about the case where a murdered victim solved her own death from beyond the grave. So I always wondered if more was said about it later on since it does still get talked about even now.
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24-07-2016, 05:41 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
(24-07-2016 12:01 PM)prhill Wrote:  Whether the case is about spirit communication, possession or both, Basa was able to reveal that Showery killed her and stole her jewelry, leading to his conviction.

As some others here have already said, there's no "mystery" to debate here. Obviously the police would've questioned Teresita Basa's fellow workers in the course of their investigation.

There had been employee reports that Remebios Chua was frightened of Showery prior to the murder, and other reports where Showery had complained about the quality of Chua’s work. She also acknowledged visiting Basa's apartment earlier for a party. It was also admitted by Showery when interrogated by police that he had intended to visit Basa's home to repair her TV.

Chua somehow became aware of all of the information through other means such as mutual friends, co-workers, family members, etc. and was so frightened of Showery that she had to make up—whether consciously or unconsciously—the "trances" so that Showery could only blame the "spirit" of Basa and not hold her or her family responsible for informing on him. Additionally, she had several months after the murder to acquire her knowledge—due to Showery's initial mistrial.

I'm guessing that some authors or journalists—many years after the event has faded from the public eye—like to sensationalise otherwise mundane cases of death and destruction for all sorts of gratifying purposes, be it notoriety, fortune or self-importance.

(BTW, I'm not sure whether you're quoting a third party when you say "Basa was able to reveal that Showery killed her" or whether you're voicing a personal standpoint?)

At any rate—and particularly on an atheists' forum—you must've known that you'd get short shrift asking us to thoroughly research any debunking of a fantastical story such as Basa's apocryphal ghost. Why would we waste our time doing so?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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24-07-2016, 05:46 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
(24-07-2016 05:41 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(24-07-2016 12:01 PM)prhill Wrote:  Whether the case is about spirit communication, possession or both, Basa was able to reveal that Showery killed her and stole her jewelry, leading to his conviction.

As some others here have already said, there's no "mystery" to debate here. Obviously the police would've questioned Teresita Basa's fellow workers in the course of their investigation.

There had been employee reports that Remebios Chua was frightened of Showery prior to the murder, and other reports where Showery had complained about the quality of Chua’s work. She also acknowledged visiting Basa's apartment earlier for a party. It was also admitted by Showery when interrogated by police that he had intended to visit Basa's home to repair her TV.

Chua somehow became aware of all of the information through other means such as mutual friends, co-workers, family members, etc. and was so frightened of Showery that she had to make up—whether consciously or unconsciously—the "trances" so that Showery could only blame the "spirit" of Basa and not hold her or her family responsible for informing on him. Additionally, she had several months after the murder to acquire her knowledge—due to Showery's initial mistrial.

I'm guessing that some authors or journalists—many years after the event has faded from the public eye—like to sensationalise otherwise mundane cases of death and destruction for all sorts of gratifying purposes, be it notoriety, fortune or self-importance.

(BTW, I'm not sure whether you're quoting a third party when you say "Basa was able to reveal that Showery killed her" or whether you're voicing a personal standpoint?)

At any rate—and particularly on an atheists' forum—you must've known that you'd get short shrift asking us to thoroughly research any debunking of a fantastical story such as Basa's apocryphal ghost. Why would we waste our time doing so?

Where did I ask anyone to do anything? I asked if anyone knew if there was any debunking of it or anything. I did not tell anyone to research it for me. I ask because sometimes people know things already.
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24-07-2016, 10:28 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
(24-07-2016 04:27 PM)prhill Wrote:  ...
Great points. The only reason this particular case fascinates me is because I have known some police officers over the years and they still talk about the case where a murdered victim solved her own death from beyond the grave. So I always wondered if more was said about it later on since it does still get talked about even now.

That says quite a lot about those police officers.

Incidentally, The Philippines is steeped in superstition (being predominantly Catholic adds to this). I shared a room with three filipinas (and a Thai) for a few months and they knew the room was haunted because of creeking noises and curtains moving at night ... until I shut the window in the kitchen!

Next time you get a chance to chat with those police officers ask them how much money they think that banks spend per annum on security and governance systems (compliance, audits etc.) to prevent theft of back account details and PINs by clairvoyants and mediums.

Consider

I've worked for the Asian Development Bank based in Manila so I can tell them exactly how much.

Big Grin

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24-07-2016, 11:13 PM
RE: True case where the murder victim solved her own case from beyond the grave.
It's the second story on this tape. Begins around the 1:25 mark.




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