True love! Or not!
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22-03-2016, 02:24 PM
RE: True love! Or not!
(22-03-2016 02:21 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(22-03-2016 02:04 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  I totally agree, that's why I can't stand hippie Christians, I mean if we had to give them a choice to condemn someone who had committed a crime they would most likely agree so how can they be all loving and all forgiving but still agree some people should be kept away from society? It's hard to keep those standards up for what is acceptable and still "love" everyone equally. I could agree they may have some worth and could still be productive to society but their goodness would be up for debate.

I couldn't care less about hippie christians as claiming as their claims about them loving everyone are irritant at worst. I think it's idiotic view but I care not about what they think as long as they do not try to force their taboos onto others.

(22-03-2016 02:04 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  I'm trying to think of an example of something we might not be aware of at first...I think maybe those girls who act like mass shooters like James Holmes are so cute/hot and then go around acting like he should be set free, get mental help and then marry them. It's easy to think "What the hell is wrong with these girls?" but they honestly think these guys are good deep down but really they're just sexually attracted to them.

The thing is I don't think you could say what girls in question really feel. Sure, maybe such girls really think that murderers are all cuddly but misunderstood or some shit like this, but they also could simply not care or want some sick bite of fame.

(22-03-2016 02:04 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  They may not be fully aware of that at first but it can happen to anyone. I had a crush on a bad boy I went to school with, the first time he flirted with me he was so aggressive and rude about it I instantly stopped liking him, later I realized I just thought he was cute, he was never really worth my time but in my mind I convinced myself he was a great guy.


Bad boy and killer are two different things. And it's kinda like anecdotal evidence - fact that you felt x in some circumstances does not mean that everyone else will feel x in those circumstances.

(22-03-2016 02:04 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  I think it could be a lot of things, I mean you could fall in love with a doctor who saved your life and not realize you've placed him on a pedestal or love someone who is so different than anyone you've ever met, they're just so unique but not necessarily worthy of love or even a good person until you realize it later. You just wanted to rebel against your family or were bored by everyone you knew.

That is kinda my point - you don't choose person with which you fall in love. It simply happens. But I easily could be wrong as neither romance nor neurochemistry are of much interest to me.

As I said I can't really think of any real proof of someone falling in love with another person and thinking they have standard A: He's a great person but really they fell for him for the unknown standard B: He's really hot. I know it does happen, it happened to me but I see it happen to other people all the time. If someone is attracted to another person enough and they feel some affection towards them but in the end it was only lust/infatuation, they might not realize it at the time but they will later after some reflection.

I agree we can't control who we fall in love with in a conscious sense but something in you is creating these feelings and if you were to be truly honest with yourself you can try to figure why/how you started to have those feelings and it might not always be something you even knew was a standard that mattered but it was and that's hwy it happened.

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22-03-2016, 02:41 PM
RE: True love! Or not!
(22-03-2016 02:24 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  As I said I can't really think of any real proof of someone falling in love with another person and thinking they have standard A: He's a great person but really they fell for him for the unknown standard B: He's really hot. I know it does happen, it happened to me but I see it happen to other people all the time. If someone is attracted to another person enough and they feel some affection towards them but in the end it was only lust/infatuation, they might not realize it at the time but they will later after some reflection.

I'm afraid that I don't quite follow. What standards have to do with love?

(22-03-2016 02:24 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  I agree we can't control who we fall in love with in a conscious sense but something in you is creating these feelings and if you were to be truly honest with yourself you can try to figure why/how you started to have those feelings and it might not always be something you even knew was a standard that mattered but it was and that's hwy it happened.

If love is chemistry then I doubt that being honest with oneself matters.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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22-03-2016, 03:29 PM
RE: True love! Or not!
(22-03-2016 02:41 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(22-03-2016 02:24 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  As I said I can't really think of any real proof of someone falling in love with another person and thinking they have standard A: He's a great person but really they fell for him for the unknown standard B: He's really hot. I know it does happen, it happened to me but I see it happen to other people all the time. If someone is attracted to another person enough and they feel some affection towards them but in the end it was only lust/infatuation, they might not realize it at the time but they will later after some reflection.

I'm afraid that I don't quite follow. What standards have to do with love?

(22-03-2016 02:24 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  I agree we can't control who we fall in love with in a conscious sense but something in you is creating these feelings and if you were to be truly honest with yourself you can try to figure why/how you started to have those feelings and it might not always be something you even knew was a standard that mattered but it was and that's hwy it happened.

If love is chemistry then I doubt that being honest with oneself matters.

Let me try to explain what I mean by standards. Let's say there is an evangelical minister who is against gay marriage and thinks gay people choose to be that way and just want to sin. His son tells him he is gay and the father feeling so disgusted tells his son he needs to get help, get a girlfriend or he will disown him. In this situation the son has not met his father's standard. The father may love his child in a his own way deep down inside but will refuse to accept him and will take his love away from him in any tangible sense until he lives as a straight person. He may even feel nothing but hate for his son, all the love he had for him is gone. He still loves Jesus thought and loves the Bible which is more important to him than his own family.

Someone may have a standard of faithfulness, the moment their boy/girlfriend cheats on them they are so angry and disappointed they lose all love for them and they leave them. Eventually they may grow to hate them because their standard was not met. So we all have them, we may not even be fully aware of what they are all the time and some may be more important than others but if they are not met we can't feel that emotion, I hope that makes sense.

I'm not a therapist or anything but this is just how I feel so you may not agree and that's totally fine but it's just what I've come to know about love in my life.

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22-03-2016, 03:42 PM
RE: True love! Or not!
(22-03-2016 03:29 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  Let me try to explain what I mean by standards. Let's say there is an evangelical minister who is against gay marriage and thinks gay people choose to be that way and just want to sin. His son tells him he is gay and the father feeling so disgusted tells his son he needs to get help, get a girlfriend or he will disown him. In this situation the son has not met his father's standard. The father may love his child in a his own way deep down inside but will refuse to accept him and will take his love away from him in any tangible sense until he lives as a straight person. He may even feel nothing but hate for his son, all the love he had for him is gone. He still loves Jesus thought and loves the Bible which is more important to him than his own family.

Now I understand what you meant and I agree but I would say that such person loves only their own prejudices and feeling of righteousness.

(22-03-2016 03:29 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  Someone may have a standard of faithfulness, the moment their boy/girlfriend cheats on them they are so angry and disappointed they lose all love for them and they leave them. Eventually they may grow to hate them because their standard was not met. So we all have them, we may not even be fully aware of what they are all the time and some may be more important than others but if they are not met we can't feel that emotion, I hope that makes sense.

It makes sense though I wouldn't call it having standard. Betrayal of trust simply hurts but it don't necessarily lead to abandoning unfaithful partner.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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22-03-2016, 03:46 PM
RE: True love! Or not!
I've experienced infatuations, I don't know about love yet.

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22-03-2016, 09:15 PM
RE: True love! Or not!
(21-03-2016 09:04 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I don't see what's wrong with divorce.... you grow up, you grow apart. What's wrong with acknowledging your differences and moving on? When a partnership, especially one that was entered into at a very young age, no longer services the couple, then why shouldn't the couple feel proud and confident to call it quits and find new partners who are more suited?

Given the stigma of divorce in say, the RCC, what with being required to have a marriage annulled as defective from the beginning, I can see how there would be some acrimony. Also, people seem to want to make the other person out as a villain (a lot of times, true) in the case when they want out of a situation. Would that more people had your view, instead of extremely adversarial actions! But once the rancor starts, people just roll with it.
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23-03-2016, 12:32 AM (This post was last modified: 23-03-2016 07:24 AM by Aliza.)
RE: True love! Or not!
(22-03-2016 09:15 PM)Fireball Wrote:  
(21-03-2016 09:04 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I don't see what's wrong with divorce.... you grow up, you grow apart. What's wrong with acknowledging your differences and moving on? When a partnership, especially one that was entered into at a very young age, no longer services the couple, then why shouldn't the couple feel proud and confident to call it quits and find new partners who are more suited?

Given the stigma of divorce in say, the RCC, what with being required to have a marriage annulled as defective from the beginning, I can see how there would be some acrimony. Also, people seem to want to make the other person out as a villain (a lot of times, true) in the case when they want out of a situation. Would that more people had your view, instead of extremely adversarial actions! But once the rancor starts, people just roll with it.

(I needed help with what “RCC” meant. For the rest of the uninformed, that means, “Roman Catholic Church".)

But see, that’s exactly what I view as being wrong. By demonizing divorce –particularly because of expectations that are founded in Christianity- we’re inclined to want to place blame for the failed union on one party or another.

Don’t get me wrong, life-long marriage is a beautiful way to express love. Special and unique benefits are to be had from choosing to live your life like this if you happen to be fortunate enough to end up with the exact right person when you get married.

But then again, can everyone see themselves spending the rest of their lives with the person from their last long-term relationship? And must it be assumed that lack of love and respect was is at the root of the problem? Maybe if we had a culture where we respected people’s relationships –with no expectation for a particular outcome- we’d have an overall gain in successful, healthy relationships (however long those relationships may be). People shouldn't feel pressured to remain in stale, unhealthy relationships for the sake of “proving” to the world how successful they can be at long-term commitments. Setting one-size-fits all standards for marriage inherently creates both arrogance and insecurity as some people are naturally more inclined to enjoy this type of union (they are successful and emotionally well adjusted), while others are not (something must be wrong with them).
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23-03-2016, 12:54 AM
RE: True love! Or not!
Being single is easier as far as I am concerned. Marriage does not seem to be very successful. I just went through a bunch of sources and read up on the divorce rate world wide. Here is a top ten that is easy to copy and paste. Big Grin

Countries With the Highest Divorce Rates
April 10, 2015

Divorce to marriage rate ratio

10. USA: 53%
This may come as a surprise to some, but the United States is only the tenth highest on the list of countries with the highest divorce rate. The U.S., which has some of the best kept data when it comes to marriages and divorces, is facing a steady decline in marriages according to the Census Bureau.

Not only are the number of marriages per year shrinking, but people are waiting longer to marry, and there has been an increase in the number of divorces in the United States. In fact, a divorce happens every one in six seconds, with a higher trend in the South and Midwest as opposed to the Northeast.

Nevada, Oklahoma and Arkansas are some of the states boasting the highest divorce rates, while New Jersey, New York and Massachusetts have some of the lowest divorce rates in the United States.

9. France: 55%
France, Paris, the Eiffle Tower… they all seem to allude to romance and couples, however it’s only an illusion as France appears as the ninth country on our list.

An argument can be made that France has such high divorce rates due to their openness to all things, however the high proportion of marriages that end in divorce makes one wonder about the well-being and happiness of the people, so much so, that in 2012 the French government thought it was worth being concerned about, and introduced a new initiative aimed at lowering the divorce rate in the country.

8. Cuba: 56%
Cuba has the highest divorce rate among all countries in Latin America. It’s so high that Pope John Paul II, during his 1998 visit to Cuba, criticized the high number of divorces there.

There are several reasons for why Cuba has such a high divorce rate. The first has to do with the island’s terrible housing shortage as well as high poverty which forces married couples to live with their in-laws and other relatives. As you can imagine, having to live with so many other people can cause a strain on even the best of marriages. The poor economic conditions don’t help either.

Cuba’s laissez-faire approach to divorce also contributes to its high divorce rate. It’s cheap and effortless, costing a couple about the equivalent of four U.S. dollars and twenty minutes of time. Because of the poverty, there are few possessions to divide, making divorce a truly simple process.

7. Estonia: 58%
Estonia averages nearly six in ten marriages ending in divorce. The nation is a former satellite state of the Soviet Union which has had legalised divorce for a long time, and as such it’s more or less accepted by society. As with Cuba, however, a newer trend showing a dramatic decrease in marriage levels has been the more significant talking point in the country. This trend – more and more common in countries with a high divorce rate – may be attributed to the high levels of divorce creating a society disillusioned with marriage. It should be pointed out that unlike several other nations, Estonia does not offer any tax breaks to married couples, only those cohabiting, meaning that there is no legal or logistical incentive for couples to marry.
6. Luxembourg: 60%
One of the smallest nations in Europe, Luxembourg lies sandwiched between Belgium, Germany and France, and has a population of just over half a million people.

Luxembourg sees many travellers, expats and others pass through the country. Grounds for divorce in the country require that both parties are above the age of 21 and that they have been married for at least two years, although legal separations and annulments are also possible. As with other nations, the marriage rate in Luxembourg is falling, while those most likely to divorce in the country are between 40 and 49 years of age.

5. Spain: 61%
At first glance it may be surprising to see Spain on this list since it’s historically been known for its close ties to the Catholic Church. However, the country has been moving away from its religious heritage – in 2005, new divorce legislation, designed to make divorce by mutual consent quicker and easier, was approved.

Under the legislation (known as divorcio directo), a couple wishing to divorce must have been married for a minimum of three months (less if there’s domestic violence), neither party needs to present any grounds for divorce and there’s no minimum period of separation required beforehand

The financial troubles the country has suffered in recent years have also been cited as another reason for marriages in the country breaking down.

4. Czech Republic: 66%
The central European nation of the Czech Republic has one of the highest divorce rates in the world, and at one time the highest in Europe. Around 11% of all men and 13% of women in the country are divorced and, as such, the practice is destigmatised. Grounds for divorce in the country are fairly straightforward: a fundamental breakdown of relations between spouses must be proven for the courts to dissolve a marriage. In terms of the custody rights of divorced parents in the Czech Republic, however, the practices are arguably worrying: Well over 90% of women in the country are granted full custody of their children in the aftermath of a divorce and the arguments of rights groups for fathers in these situations remain largely ignored.

3. Hungary: 67%
For a long time now Hungary has had an enormously high level of marriages ending in divorce. Hungarian courts grant a divorce either by mutual consent or if proof is given that the marriage has irrevocably broken down. Marriage rates are dropping here, and it has been noted by the OECD that the numbers of cohabiting unmarried couples remain low. This suggests that many who wish to live together may marry before doing so, only to later realise that romantic bliss has eluded them. Just under 10% of all Hungarian men are divorced, while 12.4% of women in the nation have been previously married.

2. Portugal: 68%
Another unusual entry on our list, Portugal, like neighbouring Spain, is known for its traditionally Catholic heritage. However, the nation is not as tied to this background as you may think as divorce has been permitted in the country for over a century. When first introduced, divorce levels were low, numbering only a few hundred every year, but the figures have skyrocketed of late. At the same time, however, the marriage rates in the country remain high according to the OECD, suggesting that couples in Portugal remain firmly attached to the institution of marriage.

1. Belgium: 71%
A first glance, Belgium appears an example of European modernity: a nation with a rich history and splendid architecture which is the centre of power for the European Union and Parliament. Dig a little deeper, however, and you’ll realise that all is not well in the nation so famous for its chocolate. Politically, Belgium is fiercely divided between the French speaking south, which includes the capital Brussels, and the Flemish speaking north, close to Holland. The nation is so divided that successive elections have resulted in collapsed governments with Belgium going a record 535 days without a government as a result. Against this backdrop divorce levels have been climbing, with the decline of the Church cited as a key factor in these figures. Around 32,000 Belgians sign divorce papers every year. Belgian courts will grant a divorce on the grounds of adultery, excesses, physical or mental cruelty and de facto separation. Only about a third of marriages in Belgium actually last, which is a startling fact that undeniably calls the integrity of the ’til-death-do-us-part institution (in Belgium, at least) into question.


Source.

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23-03-2016, 07:53 AM
RE: True love! Or not!
(21-03-2016 05:18 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  so I saw this post earlier about explaining love or whatever. It reminded me of a sermon from church that I used to believe with my whole heart. Basically the church teaches that without God and accepting Jesus you can not experience true love. Without the ultimate sacrifice you just have no clue what love is.
So tell me guys.. Are you loveless? Have you truly not experienced true love?! What the hell even defines true love?
All answers accepted because I'm sure someone will get smart/ sarcastic/ weird (those are the most fun)

There are different kinds of love. The New Testament was written in Greek and that language has different words for the different kinds of love. One word is agape, which means a determination to do what is best for the one loved. That is probably the kind meant in the sermon you refer to. That is how God loves us and is how Christians are commanded to love each other.

Another word is phileo. It means caring for someone because you like them. This is probably what most people have in mind when they think of love. This is used in the name Philadelphia, which means the city of brotherly love.

A third word, eros, refers to sexual love. I don't believe this word is used in the New Testament.

The fact that we speak English sometimes makes it difficult for us to understand what the Bible says about love because we have only one word for it while the Bible uses two.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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23-03-2016, 07:55 AM
RE: True love! Or not!
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