Trump Appellate Nominee Says Her Religion Supersedes the Constitution
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21-09-2017, 11:38 AM
RE: Trump Appellate Nominee Says Her Religion Supersedes the Constitution
(21-09-2017 11:13 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(21-09-2017 12:34 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Afaik the US constitution has (in hindsight, from a 21st century PoV) a single major flaw compared to many other, more recent and modern constitutions (not only the german one): It fails to mention human rights.

Yes, pretty glaring omission isn't it?

Aren't all 10 items in the Bill of Rights "human rights"? Why would you need to spell out "human rights" as a separate item? What am I missing?
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21-09-2017, 11:41 AM
RE: Trump Appellate Nominee Says Her Religion Supersedes the Constitution
(21-09-2017 11:38 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(21-09-2017 11:13 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Yes, pretty glaring omission isn't it?

Aren't all 10 items in the Bill of Rights "human rights"? Why would you need to spell out "human rights" as a separate item? What am I missing?

I think without explicit mention of it, it lends itself open to interpretation like some only deserve 3/5, e.g.

There is but one truly serious philosophical problem. - Camus
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21-09-2017, 12:09 PM
RE: Trump Appellate Nominee Says Her Religion Supersedes the Constitution
(21-09-2017 11:41 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(21-09-2017 11:38 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Aren't all 10 items in the Bill of Rights "human rights"? Why would you need to spell out "human rights" as a separate item? What am I missing?

I think without explicit mention of it, it lends itself open to interpretation like some only deserve 3/5, e.g.

Even if human rights were explicitly mentioned, I'm pretty sure that the governing class would find interpretations which suit their purposes -- just as they do with every other aspect of our Constitution.
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21-09-2017, 01:41 PM
RE: Trump Appellate Nominee Says Her Religion Supersedes the Constitution
(21-09-2017 11:38 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(21-09-2017 11:13 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Yes, pretty glaring omission isn't it?

Aren't all 10 items in the Bill of Rights "human rights"? Why would you need to spell out "human rights" as a separate item? What am I missing?
Disclaimer:
I am in no way an expert in international law (nor the US american constitution), so i am probably completely wrong.

But here are some basic human rights i found in the german constitution but not in the Bill of Rights. In Order of appearance:

Quote:Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority

The German people therefore acknowledge inviolable and inalienable human rights as the basis of every community, of peace and of justice in the world

Every person shall have the right to life and physical integrity

All persons shall be equal before the law

Men and women shall have equal rights. The state shall promote the actual implementation of equal rights for women and men and take steps to eliminate disadvantages that now exist

No person shall be favoured or disfavoured because of sex, parentage, race, language, homeland and origin, faith, or religious or political opinions. No person shall be disfavoured because of disability

Persons persecuted on political grounds shall have the right of asylum

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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21-09-2017, 04:01 PM
RE: Trump Appellate Nominee Says Her Religion Supersedes the Constitution
(20-09-2017 03:18 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  The Constitution does, at least in theory, also guarantee certain rights. In Biker Dude's defense (not that he needs any defending from me), I think he's more concerned with that part of it than the "rules" part.

Well, it's an interesting situation, I'll give you that.

Many of the architects of the Constitution were also involved in the production of an earlier document in which they explicitly stated their belief in a "self-evident truth" that all human beings (or at least "all men") were endowed with "certain unalienable rights". Yet for some reason they felt the need to explicitly grant some these unalienable rights in the Constitution.

It could be argued that the Constitutional Convention magnanimously granted only those rights which they felt it would be folly to attempt to repress -- under pain of risking a rebellion against the power structure they were constructing. One of the rights not specifically granted in the Constitution is that of human equality. Article 1, Section 2, in fact explicitly established the inequality of Indians and "those bound to a term of service", ie., slaves.

This is only the most blatant example of the fact that the Constitution is not about establishing uniform rights for all people, but is in fact about preserving and perpetuating a class-stratified society, with a well-to-do mercantile class at the top, making all the important decisions.

All of which is to say that, even leaving "the rules" aside, the "rights" part still leaves something to be desired.

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Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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21-09-2017, 04:03 PM
RE: Trump Appellate Nominee Says Her Religion Supersedes the Constitution
(21-09-2017 12:34 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Afaik the US constitution has (in hindsight, from a 21st century PoV) a single major flaw compared to many other, more recent and modern constitutions (not only the german one): It fails to mention human rights.

Clap

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Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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21-09-2017, 04:27 PM
RE: Trump Appellate Nominee Says Her Religion Supersedes the Constitution
(21-09-2017 01:41 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Every person shall have the right to life and physical integrity

I'm pretty sure that one (from Article 2), recognizes health care as a fundamental, basic human right.

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22-09-2017, 12:22 AM
RE: Trump Appellate Nominee Says Her Religion Supersedes the Constitution
(21-09-2017 04:27 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(21-09-2017 01:41 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Every person shall have the right to life and physical integrity

I'm pretty sure that one (from Article 2), recognizes health care as a fundamental, basic human right.

Well, from what i understand the "right to have health care" for each individual can not to be deducted from this artice aka. the "right to have health". But imho the government clearly saw this as a instruction/mandate to provide something for its citizens to factually provide the health which was granted in constitutional theory: Universal healthcare with the goal to cover everybody to some extent.

Question (once again, i am not so firm with the US constitution/bill of rights):
Is it correct then that the equality under the law (explicitly for women and blacks particularly), which is explicitly granted in the german constitution for example is not explicitly granted in the US constitution?

Is that what had lead to 1857 ruling that blacks cant be US citizens, and therefore the rights granted to the US citizens in the bill of rights dont (necessarily) apply to them? Was that the pivot around which the discrimination was built?

Is it right that while the german constitution acknowledges human rights for every community, not only the german people, whereas the bill of rights only grants rights to US citizens?

What about the right of asylum for political persecution? Its currently a pretty hot topic as we all know. What does the US constitution say about this?

If any or most of the points should be correct, then i shall feel confirmed in my opinion, that wile in the late 18th century the US constitution was ground breaking, it needs probably some refurbishing/update for the 21st century, as more recent constitutional texts (like the german post WWII one) indicate.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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22-09-2017, 12:36 AM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2017 12:40 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Trump Appellate Nominee Says Her Religion Supersedes the Constitution
(22-09-2017 12:22 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Question (once again, i am not so firm with the US constitution/bill of rights):
Is it correct then that the equality under the law (explicitly for women and blacks particularly), which is explicitly granted in the german constitution for example is not explicitly granted in the US constitution?

I think it is for all intent and purpose made explicit in our 15th and 19th amendments. Our Constitution continually evolves through the built-in anticipated amendment process. Drunks were smart enough to anticipate and accommodate social change. To be fair, after you guys went full Trump, you were presented with the, shall we say "opportunity" to revamp your Constitution and to your credit you went with Otto von "The Last Philosopher King" Bismarck and added some restraints to prevent you from going full Trump again. Your Constitution was revamped in 1949, I would expect it to be more enlightened than ours.

There is but one truly serious philosophical problem. - Camus
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22-09-2017, 01:19 AM
RE: Trump Appellate Nominee Says Her Religion Supersedes the Constitution
Does the amendmend process tolerate or even encourage adding completely new "rules" or rights, formerly not known of or not being mentioned at all in the original document?

I understand amendmend as "adding to something already existing", thats why i am asking.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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