Trump - I can shoot anyone.
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27-01-2016, 11:33 AM
RE: Trump - I can shoot anyone.
(27-01-2016 11:27 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(27-01-2016 10:59 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I've said I would gain any amount of respect for Trump if he actually cared about financial reform in politics. He doesn't though. His angle of why he doesn't take superpac money is to showoff his agenda of his power that he doesn't have to be bought off, but if he actually hampered on it and spoke up about wanting to motivate others to disavow the rules, it would be different. He can't deny he's been a political endorser in the past.
He doesn't care about financial reform in politics? That's simply not true.

(27-01-2016 10:59 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  But it's also interesting your view of him is based on things that aren't certainly true. You could say to others have you just judged by the media reports, but what accounts make you think a person of his situation is an impressive businessman? Other than media reports or his own proclamations would make that seem legitimate.
I don't understand your question, I really don't. If the multi-billion dollar empire he created over the past several decades isn't evidence of his skills as businessman, then what is? A forum member on TTA recently claimed that he would be richer now if he had simply invested his money in an index fund, but that naive view has been thoroughly debunked by the experts several times, most recently by a former Goldman Sachs investment banker working for Bloomberg.

Vosur check your facts Trump is a failure as a businessman had he taken the money his daddy gave him and put it in a bog standard S&P and gone and jerked off in the corner he would be worth 3 times as much money as he currently is.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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27-01-2016, 11:40 AM
RE: Trump - I can shoot anyone.
(27-01-2016 11:33 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Vosur check your facts Trump is a failure as a businessman had he taken the money his daddy gave him and put it in a bog standard S&P and gone and jerked off in the corner he would be worth 3 times as much money as he currently is.
You don't even know enough about the subject to be called a layman, yet you presume to know better than the former Goldman Sachs investment banker whose expert analysis I linked to in the post you responded to? Care to refute what he wrote?

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27-01-2016, 11:49 AM
RE: Trump - I can shoot anyone.
(27-01-2016 11:40 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(27-01-2016 11:33 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Vosur check your facts Trump is a failure as a businessman had he taken the money his daddy gave him and put it in a bog standard S&P and gone and jerked off in the corner he would be worth 3 times as much money as he currently is.
You don't even know enough about the subject to be called a layman, yet you presume to know better than the former Goldman Sachs investment banker whose expert analysis I linked to in the post you responded to? Care to refute what he wrote?


the S&P calculator similarly suggested he'd have $11.3 billion, after fees and dividend taxes.

He is currently worth 8.5 billion care to retract? I will take back the 3x as it is actually just under 1/2 but still Trump as a businessman cost himself 2.8 billion so how is he an expert?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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27-01-2016, 11:58 AM (This post was last modified: 27-01-2016 12:09 PM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Trump - I can shoot anyone.
(27-01-2016 11:27 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(27-01-2016 10:59 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I've said I would gain any amount of respect for Trump if he actually cared about financial reform in politics. He doesn't though. His angle of why he doesn't take superpac money is to showoff his agenda of his power that he doesn't have to be bought off, but if he actually hampered on it and spoke up about wanting to motivate others to disavow the rules, it would be different. He can't deny he's been a political endorser in the past.
He doesn't care about financial reform in politics? That's simply not true.

(27-01-2016 10:59 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  But it's also interesting your view of him is based on things that aren't certainly true. You could say to others have you just judged by the media reports, but what accounts make you think a person of his situation is an impressive businessman? Other than media reports or his own proclamations would make that seem legitimate.
I don't understand your question, I really don't. If the multi-billion dollar empire he created over the past several decades isn't evidence of his skills as businessman, then what is? A forum member on TTA recently claimed that he would be richer now if he had simply invested his money in an index fund, but that naive view has been thoroughly debunked by the experts several times, most recently by a former Goldman Sachs investment banker working for Bloomberg.

It's not a great decision for me... a quote of his. He also said he loves Christmas. About a month after that. He said he loves the "idea" of changing things. Does he ever bring it up in context outside of it's relevance to him or actually hammer on it? Which is the point I was getting out. He responds to people asking him about it, that's not a real significant element to a political agenda.

He said it then in August, and how many debates has he had prime opportunities to bring it up publically, not in a way to promote himself, but to retoat the point of the issue? He's not a person showcasing he cares about it. He just responded pleasantly to a question. He's good at responding nicely to questions to draw attention though.

Think about it, did Trump in that interview or others talk at all about how he would stop it? Or say that he would? Any mention of wanting to push an Amendment against campaign finance? Talk about who he would put in the supreme court if a case about it came up? Talk about pushing a bill to it? Talk about the effects of it? He only seems to talk about it in context of promoting himself, not making it different. He is substance-less about the issue. He said more about his agenda to make everyone say Merry Christmas or build a wall along the boarder than his adjust this mess.

I wasn't referring merely to some invest money issue. He was foundering until he had become a bigger icon. He was always a media icon in the 80s already, but when his TV shows began airing, he was boosted and helped out of a floundering funk where he had been using the bankruptcy laws for a couple of his businesses. He's made moves to grow on his own from his inheritance, but part of his "businessman" cred is a lot more media allure. And no having a spot of taking over a buisnesses with a foothold that helps one grow doesn't mean multi-billions is an certain statement to think that it means his business skills are impressive. He inherited the main control in pushing out a multi-hudredmillion dollar company.

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27-01-2016, 12:08 PM
RE: Trump - I can shoot anyone.
(27-01-2016 11:49 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
the S&P calculator similarly suggested he'd have $11.3 billion, after fees and dividend taxes.

He is currently worth 8.5 billion care to retract? I will take back the 3x as it is actually just under 1/2 but still Trump as a businessman cost himself 2.8 billion so how is he an expert?
Why would I retract anything I said at this point? All you did is link to a different article which doesn't address the arguments made in the analysis I linked you to. Your article, by the way, was written by Dylan Matthews, someone with virtually no qualifications or experience in the relevant field. It's like taking the word of a high school science student over the word of Stephen Hawking when you're not an expert yourself. What I'm doing is a textbook example of a valid appeal to authority.

I have to give you props for taking back the untrue statement you made earlier, but I also can't help but point out the irony of you telling me to "check my facts" right before saying something factually incorrect. Laugh out load

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27-01-2016, 12:11 PM
RE: Trump - I can shoot anyone.
(27-01-2016 12:08 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(27-01-2016 11:49 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
the S&P calculator similarly suggested he'd have $11.3 billion, after fees and dividend taxes.

He is currently worth 8.5 billion care to retract? I will take back the 3x as it is actually just under 1/2 but still Trump as a businessman cost himself 2.8 billion so how is he an expert?
Why would I retract anything I said at this point? All you did is link to a different article which doesn't address the arguments made in the analysis I linked you to. Your article, by the way, was written by Dylan Matthews, someone with virtually no qualifications or experience in the relevant field. It's like taking the word of a high school science student over the word of Stephen Hawking when you're not an expert yourself. What I'm doing is a textbook example of a valid appeal to authority.

I have to give you props for taking back the untrue statement you made earlier, but I also can't help but point out the irony of you telling me to "check my facts" right before saying something factually incorrect. Laugh out load

No I am quoting math. 11.3>8.5

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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27-01-2016, 12:26 PM
RE: Trump - I can shoot anyone.
(27-01-2016 12:11 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(27-01-2016 12:08 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Why would I retract anything I said at this point? All you did is link to a different article which doesn't address the arguments made in the analysis I linked you to. Your article, by the way, was written by Dylan Matthews, someone with virtually no qualifications or experience in the relevant field. It's like taking the word of a high school science student over the word of Stephen Hawking when you're not an expert yourself. What I'm doing is a textbook example of a valid appeal to authority.

I have to give you props for taking back the untrue statement you made earlier, but I also can't help but point out the irony of you telling me to "check my facts" right before saying something factually incorrect. Laugh out load

No I am quoting math. 11.3>8.5
All right, I give up. I can't force you to read the analysis and actually engage with the arguments presented in it. You've demonstrated that you're not going to do it of your own accord so I'm wasting my time here.

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27-01-2016, 12:39 PM
RE: Trump - I can shoot anyone.
(27-01-2016 12:26 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(27-01-2016 12:11 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  No I am quoting math. 11.3>8.5
All right, I give up. I can't force you to read the analysis and actually engage with the arguments presented in it. You've demonstrated that you're not going to do it of your own accord so I'm wasting my time here.

The simple baseline for judging financial success is to compare it to an S&P 500 a good businessman can outdo one a bad one under performs, Trump underperforms. There is really no additional conversation needed on his acumen but despite what you want to believe I have researched Trump and he is a scumbag. He does not make money so much as he wrecks businesses drives them into bankruptcy and is then paid by the liquidators to remove himself from the project so as to limit the damage he has done. It seems one of us has not done an in depth analysis but it is not me. 1 article from a Trump bootlicker does not reality make.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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27-01-2016, 01:38 PM (This post was last modified: 27-01-2016 01:44 PM by Chas.)
RE: Trump - I can shoot anyone.
(27-01-2016 10:54 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(27-01-2016 10:09 AM)Chas Wrote:  I'd be interested, but since you're in Germany it is pointless.

But go right ahead, it should be amusing.
I'm in the Czech Republic, actually, and I'm not sure why that would make it pointless. I don't need to live in the US to form an opinion about your presidential candidates. I really don't appreciate your tone, but I'll answer you anyway.

My tone?
Your opinion of who is going to be or should be president simply doesn't matter.
You are not an American, you do not live in the U.S. Your opinion is for entertainment purposes only.

On the other hand, you might care what candidate has an acceptable foreign policy stance and experience.
My opinion is that Trump would be a disaster on the international stage.

Pro tip: The British want to bar him from their country.

Trump has taken four of his ventures into bankruptcy. These were Chapter 11 bankruptcies to reorganize the finances. In each, he gave up large percentages of ownership and lost a lot of money. While filing for Chapter 11 may have been the best thing to do under the circumstances, he is responsible for those adverse circumstances.

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27-01-2016, 03:03 PM
RE: Trump - I can shoot anyone.
(27-01-2016 11:58 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(27-01-2016 11:27 AM)Vosur Wrote:  He doesn't care about financial reform in politics? That's simply not true.

I don't understand your question, I really don't. If the multi-billion dollar empire he created over the past several decades isn't evidence of his skills as businessman, then what is? A forum member on TTA recently claimed that he would be richer now if he had simply invested his money in an index fund, but that naive view has been thoroughly debunked by the experts several times, most recently by a former Goldman Sachs investment banker working for Bloomberg.

It's not a great decision for me... a quote of his. He also said he loves Christmas. About a month after that. He said he loves the "idea" of changing things. Does he ever bring it up in context outside of it's relevance to him or actually hammer on it? Which is the point I was getting out. He responds to people asking him about it, that's not a real significant element to a political agenda.

He said it then in August, and how many debates has he had prime opportunities to bring it up publically, not in a way to promote himself, but to retoat the point of the issue? He's not a person showcasing he cares about it. He just responded pleasantly to a question. He's good at responding nicely to questions to draw attention though.

Think about it, did Trump in that interview or others talk at all about how he would stop it? Or say that he would? Any mention of wanting to push an Amendment against campaign finance? Talk about who he would put in the supreme court if a case about it came up? Talk about pushing a bill to it? Talk about the effects of it? He only seems to talk about it in context of promoting himself, not making it different. He is substance-less about the issue. He said more about his agenda to make everyone say Merry Christmas or build a wall along the boarder than his adjust this mess.

I wasn't referring merely to some invest money issue. He was foundering until he had become a bigger icon. He was always a media icon in the 80s already, but when his TV shows began airing, he was boosted and helped out of a floundering funk where he had been using the bankruptcy laws for a couple of his businesses. He's made moves to grow on his own from his inheritance, but part of his "businessman" cred is a lot more media allure. And no having a spot of taking over a buisnesses with a foothold that helps one grow doesn't mean multi-billions is an certain statement to think that it means his business skills are impressive. He inherited the main control in pushing out a multi-hudredmillion dollar company.
You make some good points regarding the frequency with which he talks about the issue of money in politics. I have to concede that I don't have a good explanation for why he doesn't address that topic the same way he addresses other important topics, like illegal immigration. You're right, he does treat it more as a side note at the moment. I can imagine that he'll bring it up a lot more frequently if Hillary ends up becoming the Democratic nominee since she's heavily financed by Goldman Sachs and other big special interest groups. Not so much if Bernie becomes the nominee. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.

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