Trump bans transgender from military
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24-08-2017, 12:47 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(24-08-2017 12:15 PM)ELK12695 Wrote:  
(24-08-2017 12:05 PM)Emma Wrote:  Well, looks like the expectation is that we'll see a memo from Trump to the Pentagon within the next few days.

I wonder if generals and leadership will refuse to obey those orders or if they will follow the orders from their commander in chief. I guess we'll see.

It could also be a another bullshit crybaby tactic from Trump. I'm wondering if he's trying to pass these inhuman laws just so they can get rejected; then he'll throw a tantrum and say "Democracy sucks because it goes against what I want!".

I don't think it's an issue of passing a law in this case. He essentially issues a command to the military as the leader of the military. I think there's really no democracy involved at that point.

It would be pretty astounding to see military leadership refuse to obey the command of the POTUS.
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24-08-2017, 01:04 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(24-08-2017 12:47 PM)Emma Wrote:  It would be pretty astounding to see military leadership refuse to obey the command of the POTUS.

If he manages to order it correctly - i.e. not via tweet - they will probably have to go with it? Although if it's an illegal order they could push back. Will take some balls though.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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24-08-2017, 01:12 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
I didn't serve either, in fact, I washed out of Air Force basic. But the difference between 45 and I is that I won't shit on those who did serve. It takes tons of mental capacity to face danger and still be able to do the job.

45 is being a fucking asshole and we already had this crap with gays and blacks and women serving.

If you meet the requirements and you are willing to risk your life, you should be allowed to serve. The only assholes who want this ban are bigots.

The real problem our military faces is lack of funding to care for vets when they get back. We have enough nukes and tanks and jets and subs. I am tired of this bullshit.

The fact that 45 shit on the service of McCain and Khan says to me all I need to know about what his real intent is. To feed his far right bigoted base.

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24-08-2017, 01:15 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(24-08-2017 12:47 PM)Emma Wrote:  
(24-08-2017 12:15 PM)ELK12695 Wrote:  It could also be a another bullshit crybaby tactic from Trump. I'm wondering if he's trying to pass these inhuman laws just so they can get rejected; then he'll throw a tantrum and say "Democracy sucks because it goes against what I want!".

I don't think it's an issue of passing a law in this case. He essentially issues a command to the military as the leader of the military. I think there's really no democracy involved at that point.

It would be pretty astounding to see military leadership refuse to obey the command of the POTUS.

They can drag it out, study the effects of his orders before acting, negotiate with him.... he does seem to be impressed with uniforms, but did say during the campaign that he knew better than the generals...

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24-08-2017, 01:24 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(24-08-2017 01:15 PM)Dom Wrote:  he does seem to be impressed with uniforms

I'm sure he'd love to play dress up Facepalm Just like every other tin pot dictator.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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24-08-2017, 01:30 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(24-08-2017 01:24 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(24-08-2017 01:15 PM)Dom Wrote:  he does seem to be impressed with uniforms

I'm sure he'd love to play dress up Facepalm Just like every other tin pot dictator.

As inept as Bush Jr was, when he put on military garb, I never saw him as a despot wannabe, just inept. When I see 45 do the same, I think of how insane Gadaffi looked playing dress up.

He's acting just like a drugged up Elvis who loved collecting cop badges.

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24-08-2017, 01:36 PM (This post was last modified: 24-08-2017 01:48 PM by Rockblossom.)
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(24-08-2017 01:04 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(24-08-2017 12:47 PM)Emma Wrote:  It would be pretty astounding to see military leadership refuse to obey the command of the POTUS.

If he manages to order it correctly - i.e. not via tweet - they will probably have to go with it? Although if it's an illegal order they could push back. Will take some balls though.

Not that simple. Actually, an "illegal order" is an oxymoron, since any directive that is illegal/unconstitutional is not an "order" by definition. He can send DoD a written directive. There will be at least a 6-month delay to look at the legality and feasibility of trying to implement the directive. Expect multiple legal actions on behalf of transgender military member already serving as soon as the directive hits paper, and quite possibly a "stay" by some federal court or other while legal experts decide whether it should be pushed up to the Supreme Court.

And since Congress holds the purse strings and has oversight of military operations, they have several avenues to stop the directive from taking effect. They could simply pass a law barring discrimination against transgender people in the military, and threaten an override if the President refuses to sign it. They could create an addendum to the funding bill for the military that bars discrimination, and force the President to either sign it or face a complete cutoff of all funding to the military. They could call key military leaders to testify before the Senate Armed Services Committee on the impact of a ban, which would put the military's opposition to the proposal in the public spotlight.

So DoD will delay as long as it can in the hope that the directive will be narrowed, delayed indefinitely, or barred by law from taking effect. Only if/when the courts clear it and Congress agrees will it take effect, and that's not at all likely.
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25-08-2017, 04:35 PM (This post was last modified: 25-08-2017 04:39 PM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
Trump has officially signed the order banning the recruitment of transgender individuals into the military (technically they were already banned while they conduct a study, Trump just halted Obama's order to let them in).

Using his commander in chief authority, he also issued an order stopping military funds from being spent on transgender surgeries.

A decision on current military members that are transgender hasn't been reached yet. For now they are still allowed to serve.

Edit to add: CNN is reporting that the order WILL revert the rules back to pre-2016 when transgenders were barred from openly serving. So I'm not sure if that means current transgender troops will be discharged?
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/25/politics/t...index.html

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25-08-2017, 04:38 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
Often in the history of warfare, when things get desperate, anybody can be called to serve.

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25-08-2017, 04:51 PM
Transgender and military service
Today President Trump signed a directive which would ban transgendered people from serving in the United States Military, though no details are currently in place as to how the DoD will implement such a ban.

And on this issue, I have considered it but must come down on the side of Trump on this one.

If you are struggling with gender identity issues in your life, the military is not a place to solve them. It's an unfortunate fact of life, but these are personal issues and not good baggage to be carrying when selecting service in our armed forces.

The military has but one job to do: defend the nation against attack and everyone committed to service there needs to be focused on that job and not personal issues before making a commitment to their country.

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