Trump bans transgender from military
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25-08-2017, 08:42 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(25-08-2017 08:38 PM)Dom Wrote:  Transgender ban, Sheriff Arpaio pardon, Gorka firing, North Korea shooting and hurricane hitting.

Sounds like a Billy Joel song.
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25-08-2017, 08:52 PM (This post was last modified: 25-08-2017 09:34 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(25-08-2017 08:42 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(25-08-2017 08:38 PM)Dom Wrote:  Transgender ban, Sheriff Arpaio pardon, Gorka firing, North Korea shooting and hurricane hitting.

Sounds like a Billy Joel song.

I'm going with Cher.




#sigh
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28-08-2017, 09:44 AM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(25-08-2017 04:51 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Today President Trump signed a directive which would ban transgendered people from serving in the United States Military, though no details are currently in place as to how the DoD will implement such a ban.

And on this issue, I have considered it but must come down on the side of Trump on this one.

If you are struggling with gender identity issues in your life, the military is not a place to solve them. It's an unfortunate fact of life, but these are personal issues and not good baggage to be carrying when selecting service in our armed forces.

The military has but one job to do: defend the nation against attack and everyone committed to service there needs to be focused on that job and not personal issues before making a commitment to their country.

And what if you are not "struggling with gender identity" but are quite comfortable with the idea that your preferred gender is not your biologic gender? So then there is no conflict/loss of focus and you can serve no problem, right?
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28-08-2017, 12:06 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
I really don't understand this.
It's not that complicated.

Only one thing counts in the military: operational readiness and fitness to complete the mission.

Doesn't matter if you're white, black, brown, yellow, green, short, tall, male, female, Christian, Muslim, atheist, cis-gender or not.
Can you do the job reliably, effectively and efficiently, with minimum supervision?
If yes, you're in.
If no, you're not.
THE MISSION is the only thing that matters.

(And no, transgender reassignment surgery has no more impact on operational readiness than does a C-section delivery, or surgery to remove a cancerous growth, or surgery to fix the leg you broke when you went skiing on holidays, all of which are perfectly valid reasons for military personnel to go on sick leave.)

And by the way: How other service members might feel about working with you should have absolutely no bearing on your employment either.
(If it does, I'd tell those snowflakes to suck it up, Buttercup, and start acting like a professional )

Do you think it was easy to integrate African Americans into the Armed Forces? Or women? Puleese.

Old ideas die hard, but respect for the professional code of conduct and the ability to complete the mission are the standards by which professional armed forces judge their members.
Nothing else matters.

Your faith is not evidence, your opinion is not fact, and your bias is not wisdom
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28-08-2017, 02:38 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(25-08-2017 04:51 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Today President Trump signed a directive which would ban transgendered people from serving in the United States Military, though no details are currently in place as to how the DoD will implement such a ban.

And on this issue, I have considered it but must come down on the side of Trump on this one.

If you are struggling with gender identity issues in your life, the military is not a place to solve them. It's an unfortunate fact of life, but these are personal issues and not good baggage to be carrying when selecting service in our armed forces.

The military has but one job to do: defend the nation against attack and everyone committed to service there needs to be focused on that job and not personal issues before making a commitment to their country.

What have you considered, though, Carl? I don't normally find that I disagree with you- but on this one, you are coming down on the wrong side. Like Anjele said, everyone is dealing with their own baggage. Nobody is free of it. Some deal with it better than others.

And, not all trans people will be struggling (or "questioning") while they are enlisted or on active duty. They might figure it out before or after. But they are not necessarily any less fit to serve than anyone else. Except, you know, maybe when you force a trans person into the closet and force them to hide in fear that they may be discharged if they are outed as being trans. That can really weigh on someone, I'm sure.

Because trans people have been serving and will continue to serve. It's just a question of whether they can do it openly or you force them to be in the closet during service. And being in the closet is not the healthier than being out of the closet if it's all the same otherwise.
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28-08-2017, 03:10 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(28-08-2017 02:38 PM)Emma Wrote:  Because trans people have been serving and will continue to serve. It's just a question of whether they can do it openly or you force them to be in the closet during service. And being in the closet is not the healthier than being out of the closet if it's all the same otherwise.


War can be a sombre and depressing thing. I always thought Klinger added a bit of zing and flair.




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28-08-2017, 06:30 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(24-08-2017 12:47 PM)Emma Wrote:  
(24-08-2017 12:15 PM)ELK12695 Wrote:  It could also be a another bullshit crybaby tactic from Trump. I'm wondering if he's trying to pass these inhuman laws just so they can get rejected; then he'll throw a tantrum and say "Democracy sucks because it goes against what I want!".

I don't think it's an issue of passing a law in this case. He essentially issues a command to the military as the leader of the military. I think there's really no democracy involved at that point.

It would be pretty astounding to see military leadership refuse to obey the command of the POTUS.

(24-08-2017 01:04 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(24-08-2017 12:47 PM)Emma Wrote:  It would be pretty astounding to see military leadership refuse to obey the command of the POTUS.

If he manages to order it correctly - i.e. not via tweet - they will probably have to go with it? Although if it's an illegal order they could push back. Will take some balls though.

This is in this case the unfortunate fact. Truman integrated the American military racially by executive order, and no doubt that will be the Shitgibbon's approach, because he knows that going via legislation will stir another damaging fight which he can avoid by simply issuing an order.

I don't see the military leadership rebelling against it, either. In the American military culture, the principle of civilian supremacy over the military is deeply embedded. They will salute and say, "Yes, sir."
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28-08-2017, 06:39 PM (This post was last modified: 28-08-2017 07:00 PM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(25-08-2017 04:51 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Today President Trump signed a directive which would ban transgendered people from serving in the United States Military, though no details are currently in place as to how the DoD will implement such a ban.

And on this issue, I have considered it but must come down on the side of Trump on this one.

If you are struggling with gender identity issues in your life, the military is not a place to solve them. It's an unfortunate fact of life, but these are personal issues and not good baggage to be carrying when selecting service in our armed forces.

The military has but one job to do: defend the nation against attack and everyone committed to service there needs to be focused on that job and not personal issues before making a commitment to their country.

I think this is a sort of evacuated middle. Many military members struggle with many issues non-combat-related and still receive support from their service -- alcoholism springs to mind immediately. In the Air Force, the Social Actions branch addressed those problems. PTSD sufferers also receive treatment while remaining on duty and ready to go.

I don't see trans-members as being any different, especially those who have already put their asses on the line; those in particular have already demonstrated their willingness to set aside their own issues for the sake of the nation.

I doubt very many enlistees join with the intent to address their gender-identity issues, which seems to be the subtext of your opinion. If I'm reading you wrong, please correct me.
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28-08-2017, 06:52 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(25-08-2017 07:22 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-08-2017 06:52 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Everyone who gets discharged under this BSathon should immediately sue T.rump personally.

Nobody's gonna get discharged from this. Brothers and sisters in service will surround, protect and cover and delay until this ridiculous threat goes away. Nemo residio is their fundamental creed. They won't betray it, they can't betray it. It's not an option.

I was not a combat troop, but I was a firefighter, and shared life-and-death risks with my fellow firefighters. If they were good firefighters, we gave zero-point-zero shits about their personal proclivities, because when your ass is on the line, you simply don't think about that shit. You want commitment and competence, not a package-check.

I served with one guy I knew was gay. It meant exactly nothing to me, and exactly nothing to the rest of us. He kicked ass on a fireground, and that was our only metric.
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28-08-2017, 06:54 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(25-08-2017 08:42 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(25-08-2017 08:38 PM)Dom Wrote:  Transgender ban, Sheriff Arpaio pardon, Gorka firing, North Korea shooting and hurricane hitting.

Sounds like a Billy Joel song.

But -- but -- he didn't start the fire!
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