Trump bans transgender from military
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18-10-2017, 11:36 AM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(18-10-2017 11:26 AM)yakherder Wrote:  This was recently posted on the Nevada National Guard page. Nothing groundbreaking, really. Just a small part of the whole process that I'm still finding interesting, if nothing else.

To summarize, it's basically saying if you were given a dishonorable discharge for reasons relating to your LGBTQ status, you can apply to have that changed to an honorable discharge. In civilian terms, it's like the difference between getting fired or quitting under good terms. In military terms, a dishonorable discharge can be a nasty thing to have on your record (though not as insurmountable as they'd lead you to believe).

[Image: 6fd4n1j.jpg]

I don't think anyone received a dishonorable discharge for being gay. Dishonorable is the worst discharge one can get. Only a court martial can issue a dishonorable discharge. People discharged for being gay etc were separated administratively (adminsep). Usually honorably or general under honorable conditions.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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18-10-2017, 11:41 AM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(18-10-2017 11:36 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(18-10-2017 11:26 AM)yakherder Wrote:  This was recently posted on the Nevada National Guard page. Nothing groundbreaking, really. Just a small part of the whole process that I'm still finding interesting, if nothing else.

To summarize, it's basically saying if you were given a dishonorable discharge for reasons relating to your LGBTQ status, you can apply to have that changed to an honorable discharge. In civilian terms, it's like the difference between getting fired or quitting under good terms. In military terms, a dishonorable discharge can be a nasty thing to have on your record (though not as insurmountable as they'd lead you to believe).

[Image: 6fd4n1j.jpg]

I don't think anyone received a dishonorable discharge for being gay. Dishonorable is the worst discharge one can get. Only a court martial can issue a dishonorable discharge. People discharged for being gay etc were separated administratively (adminsep). Usually honorably or general under honorable conditions.

I'd assume that if someone were given a dishonorable discharge for being gay, it would probably have more to do with having lied about their sexual orientation during recruitment than because of being gay in and of itself.

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18-10-2017, 11:44 AM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(18-10-2017 11:36 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(18-10-2017 11:26 AM)yakherder Wrote:  This was recently posted on the Nevada National Guard page. Nothing groundbreaking, really. Just a small part of the whole process that I'm still finding interesting, if nothing else.

To summarize, it's basically saying if you were given a dishonorable discharge for reasons relating to your LGBTQ status, you can apply to have that changed to an honorable discharge. In civilian terms, it's like the difference between getting fired or quitting under good terms. In military terms, a dishonorable discharge can be a nasty thing to have on your record (though not as insurmountable as they'd lead you to believe).

[Image: 6fd4n1j.jpg]

I don't think anyone received a dishonorable discharge for being gay. Dishonorable is the worst discharge one can get. Only a court martial can issue a dishonorable discharge. People discharged for being gay etc were separated administratively (adminsep). Usually honorably or general under honorable conditions.

I didn't know what level of discharge was issued for LGBT people. Apparently it was an "undesirable" discharge. Not quite a dishonorable, but not a general or honorable discharge either.

In any case, it's still awful that they were discharged at all.
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18-10-2017, 12:04 PM (This post was last modified: 18-10-2017 12:08 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(18-10-2017 11:41 AM)yakherder Wrote:  
(18-10-2017 11:36 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I don't think anyone received a dishonorable discharge for being gay. Dishonorable is the worst discharge one can get. Only a court martial can issue a dishonorable discharge. People discharged for being gay etc were separated administratively (adminsep). Usually honorably or general under honorable conditions.

I'd assume that if someone were given a dishonorable discharge for being gay, it would probably have more to do with having lied about their sexual orientation during recruitment than because of being gay in and of itself.

Blue discharge. Usually OTH is my read since BCD and Dishonorable require court-martials. Prior to WWII it looks like court-martial and Dishonorable was SOP until they realized that gays could be used as cannon fodder.

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18-10-2017, 12:09 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(18-10-2017 12:04 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-10-2017 11:41 AM)yakherder Wrote:  I'd assume that if someone were given a dishonorable discharge for being gay, it would probably have more to do with having lied about their sexual orientation during recruitment than because of being gay in and of itself.

Blue discharge. Usually OTH is my read since BCD and Dishonorable require court-martials. Prior to WWII it looks like court-martial and Dishonorable was SOP unitl they realized that gays could be used as cannon fodder.

That article says that the blue discharge was ended in 1947:
"Following intense criticism in the press—especially the black press, because of the high percentage of African Americans who received blue discharges—and in Congress, the blue discharge was discontinued in 1947, replaced by two new classifications: general and undesirable."
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18-10-2017, 12:20 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
Under don't ask don't tell, if someone admitted to being gay, they would receive an honorable or general under honorable conditions discharge. If other factors were considered, like marrying the same sex, they could receive an OTH (Other than honorable). The discharge code would be "Homosexual Conduct." All 3 types are considered administrative discharges. To receive a Bad Conduct Discharge or Dishonorable Discharge, a court martial would need to be used (probably only happened if major violations occurred, like getting caught on base performing a gay sex act multiple times).

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18-10-2017, 12:43 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(18-10-2017 12:20 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Under don't ask don't tell, if someone admitted to being gay, they would receive an honorable or general under honorable conditions discharge. If other factors were considered, like marrying the same sex, they could receive an OTH (Other than honorable). The discharge code would be "Homosexual Conduct." All 3 types are considered administrative discharges. To receive a Bad Conduct Discharge or Dishonorable Discharge, a court martial would need to be used (probably only happened if major violations occurred, like getting caught on base performing a gay sex act multiple times).

It seems to fall in line with military tradition in regards to recruitment and discharge. While the army was (and still is in some area) a bastion of chauvinism that strongly and uselessly restricted its recruitment to a single demographic, it didn't punish with any form of severity those who would cheat those restriction and become soldiers provided they did a correct job.

Hundreds of women have served in the US army as soldiers alone while they were barred from being recruited. Many earned decorations and accolades. They were allowed to keep these and while several never received a veteran pention others did. It would have been surprising for homosexuals to be treated differently than those women. In the end, the army is made of people and while its traditions are extremely rigid at times, it does give credit where credit is due when its impossible to deny it without looking foolish.

That being said, I think that this attachment to pointless traditions built on prejudice has weakened many military institutions and should be regarded with a certain sense of shame toward so much stupidity.

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19-10-2017, 12:36 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(18-10-2017 11:36 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(18-10-2017 11:26 AM)yakherder Wrote:  This was recently posted on the Nevada National Guard page. Nothing groundbreaking, really. Just a small part of the whole process that I'm still finding interesting, if nothing else.

To summarize, it's basically saying if you were given a dishonorable discharge for reasons relating to your LGBTQ status, you can apply to have that changed to an honorable discharge. In civilian terms, it's like the difference between getting fired or quitting under good terms. In military terms, a dishonorable discharge can be a nasty thing to have on your record (though not as insurmountable as they'd lead you to believe).

[Image: 6fd4n1j.jpg]

I don't think anyone received a dishonorable discharge for being gay. Dishonorable is the worst discharge one can get. Only a court martial can issue a dishonorable discharge. People discharged for being gay etc were separated administratively (adminsep). Usually honorably or general under honorable conditions.
You are correct. The last information that I received was that all transgender service members would be able to finish their current services obligations and be eventually phased out.

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30-10-2017, 04:10 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
A Federal Judge has ruled.
Quote:A federal judge in Washington on Monday blocked President Donald Trump from banning transgender people from serving in the U.S. military, handing a victory to transgender service members who accused the president of violating their constitutional rights.
...
The Trump administration argued that transgender people might harm military unit cohesion and that they suffer medical conditions that could limit their ability to perform duties or deploy.

The judge said the military previously commissioned a study that debunked concerns about unit cohesion, military readiness, or healthcare costs related to transgender troops. That report estimated there were 2,450 active-duty service members and 1,510 in the military reserves.

“In short, the military concerns purportedly underlying the president’s decision had been studied and rejected by the military itself,” Kollar-Kotelly wrote.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-mi...SKBN1CZ25E
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30-10-2017, 04:15 PM
RE: Trump bans transgender from military
(18-10-2017 11:36 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(18-10-2017 11:26 AM)yakherder Wrote:  This was recently posted on the Nevada National Guard page. Nothing groundbreaking, really. Just a small part of the whole process that I'm still finding interesting, if nothing else.

To summarize, it's basically saying if you were given a dishonorable discharge for reasons relating to your LGBTQ status, you can apply to have that changed to an honorable discharge. In civilian terms, it's like the difference between getting fired or quitting under good terms. In military terms, a dishonorable discharge can be a nasty thing to have on your record (though not as insurmountable as they'd lead you to believe).

[Image: 6fd4n1j.jpg]

I don't think anyone received a dishonorable discharge for being gay. Dishonorable is the worst discharge one can get. Only a court martial can issue a dishonorable discharge. People discharged for being gay etc were separated administratively (adminsep). Usually honorably or general under honorable conditions.

Wrong again, Dork Lord.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/us/ga...enied.html

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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