Trump's Demagoguery
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11-11-2016, 03:15 AM
RE: Trump's Demagoguery
(11-11-2016 02:35 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(11-11-2016 02:31 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  It's better for the third world countries if there isn't a brain drain to the first world. So America will be helping to develop their economies at the expense of it's own by sending its immigrants back.

Or the great irony, China, they at least don't sell themselves on anti-intellectualism.

It's possible. China may have a great number of workers to exploit in sweatshops, but eventually as the economy increases these workers start to demand more pay and China loses its advantages. So it might rely on immigrants to work in sweat shops instead.

China of course being America's main banker and able to destroy the global economy if it wants. Sure it would destroy its own, but China has been concentrating over the years on grabbing all the physical resources that it can, like rare earth minerals that are essential for manufacturing. Sometimes instead of getting paid in money. This means that it would have the assets to bounce back more quickly than other countries and make itself relatively more powerful.

Not that China would want to go down this route but it is also worth remembering two things. 1) China isn't a democracy. 2) Trump wants to take on the Chinese and stop it manipulating the currency of the US, which is how they managed to obtain all this debt in the first place.
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11-11-2016, 03:31 AM
RE: Trump's Demagoguery
(11-11-2016 03:15 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Not that China would want to go down this route but it is also worth remembering two things. 1) China isn't a democracy. 2) Trump wants to take on the Chinese and stop it manipulating the currency of the US, which is how they managed to obtain all this debt in the first place.

We can handle that problem by getting our own shit in order, but that's going to require massive cuts in defense spending. But keeping things in perspective, even if we cut the defense budge in half, we'd still have the largest budget by a long country mile. Easily a larger budget than Russian and China combined.

So say we cut it in half and did nothing else, that alone would rather quickly start to dig us out of debt. Enough to buy back our treasury bonds from China. We easily have the means to undercut China at their own game, but we're too stupid to do so; and the electorate just proved that fact with alarming clarity.

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11-11-2016, 03:49 AM
RE: Trump's Demagoguery
(11-11-2016 03:31 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  We can handle that problem by getting our own shit in order, but that's going to require massive cuts in defense spending. But keeping things in perspective, even if we cut the defense budge in half, we'd still have the largest budget by a long country mile. Easily a larger budget than Russian and China combined.

So say we cut it in half and did nothing else, that alone would rather quickly start to dig us out of debt. Enough to buy back our treasury bonds from China. We easily have the means to undercut China at their own game, but we're too stupid to do so; and the electorate just proved that fact with alarming clarity.

It'd take a few years but I think you're right. Unfortunately Trump wants to expand the military. All fascist dictators do.

http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501451368/...t-100-days

On the first day in office:

Quote:* THIRD, I will direct my Secretary of the Treasury to label China a currency manipulator

First 100 days of the new administration:

Quote:Restoring National Security Act. Rebuilds our military by eliminating the defense sequester and expanding military investment;


I don't know how this is going to work. Maybe the US and Russia want to team up and take on China? I don't see how they can considering that almost every economy in the world is dependent upon China ruining its own environment to give us cheap throwaway tat that ends up in landfill sites within a few weeks.

If so then I can't imagine that Trump has really thought this through but Putin will have. Trump is just a useful idiot to him.
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11-11-2016, 06:34 AM
RE: Trump's Demagoguery
For those tl;dr guys, heres a little heads up for all the people who are currently losing their sleep or having bottles of vodk... JD in their hands.....at breakfast Tongue

There has been a lot of talk about Trump and comparing him and your situation to Germany in the late 20s/ealry 30s. Lots of people seem to be worried about dictatorship or him firing nukes, abolishing of civil rights.

Trump cant do all those things on his own, not even launching nukes. He needs people actually doing this stuff for him. The actual buttons on the nukes have to be pushed by some military men. If you want to compare the situation to Germany, you also need to factor in the role of the military. It is always crucial in situations critical to the state (most recent example: Turkey. If the majority of the army wouldt have "voted" for Erdogan, he wouldnt be there anymore. See Egypt, etc.).

Lets look at Germany: The Weimar army was strongly opposed to the state, particulary the democracy. Hence it wasnt to hard for extremist forces to shatter Weimar. The army (and jurisdiction too btw) were rather right wing and -frankly- anti constitution. So its no wonder, that first the left wing figureheads got assasinated, and then everybody was watching as the nazi SA troopers duked it out (and gained the upper hand) in the ensuing streetfights, while right wing coups were -although unsuccesful- punished very mildly (see Hitlers conviction which lead to writing his book).

Looking at the USA and the 20th century, streetfighting of party affiliated gangs is very unlikely imho, however we have to factor in, that everybody is armed to the teeth...we will see.
What is the status of american courts, not only supreme court, but all courts (on average). What is the judges position politically? Is there a heavy leaning towards a particular political side? Looking from the outside, this still looks quite healthy.
What about the armed forces? Trump can order what he wants. If some staff decides to not accept his orders, if there is a kind of insurgence or -very unlikely- a coup, then Trups a goner. So whats the position of the armed forces figureheads. Are they loyal to the constitution? To Trump? To the Rep. party? If the Armed forces are loyal to the constitution, then there is no reason for fear of a dictatorship or the likes because such things never happen unlike the military at least approves it (or someone is capable of decapitating the military, like uncle Joe).
Because thats what finally sealed the fate of Germany: The armed forces not resisting Hitler and his thugs (hard enough) until it was far too late (1944).

So, while Trump may, or may not be able to fuck up your country (a bit, or considerably more), i dont see that he will shatter the very ground on which this country was founded. Not even a civil was was able to do that in the long run!

You cant take over a country, and keep control, without having the support of the armed forces, you simply cant.

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11-11-2016, 07:29 AM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2016 07:54 AM by Marozz.)
RE: Trump's Demagoguery
Trump is just an idiotic gobshite and I think the only thing he and Hitler may have in common is building roads. Trump has promised he's gonna build lots of roads and the Third Reich built the German autobahns - Reichsautobahn.........although ......maybe.....nah.

“The first duty of a man is to think for himself” ― José Martí
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11-11-2016, 07:59 AM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2016 01:22 PM by TheBeardedDude.)
RE: Trump's Demagoguery
(11-11-2016 06:34 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  For those tl;dr guys, heres a little heads up for all the people who are currently losing their sleep or having bottles of vodk... JD in their hands.....at breakfast Tongue

There has been a lot of talk about Trump and comparing him and your situation to Germany in the late 20s/ealry 30s. Lots of people seem to be worried about dictatorship or him firing nukes, abolishing of civil rights.

Trump cant do all those things on his own, not even launching nukes. He needs people actually doing this stuff for him. The actual buttons on the nukes have to be pushed by some military men. If you want to compare the situation to Germany, you also need to factor in the role of the military. It is always crucial in situations critical to the state (most recent example: Turkey. If the majority of the army wouldt have "voted" for Erdogan, he wouldnt be there anymore. See Egypt, etc.).

Lets look at Germany: The Weimar army was strongly opposed to the state, particulary the democracy. Hence it wasnt to hard for extremist forces to shatter Weimar. The army (and jurisdiction too btw) were rather right wing and -frankly- anti constitution. So its no wonder, that first the left wing figureheads got assasinated, and then everybody was watching as the nazi SA troopers duked it out (and gained the upper hand) in the ensuing streetfights, while right wing coups were -although unsuccesful- punished very mildly (see Hitlers conviction which lead to writing his book).

Looking at the USA and the 20th century, streetfighting of party affiliated gangs is very unlikely imho, however we have to factor in, that everybody is armed to the teeth...we will see.
What is the status of american courts, not only supreme court, but all courts (on average). What is the judges position politically? Is there a heavy leaning towards a particular political side? Looking from the outside, this still looks quite healthy.
What about the armed forces? Trump can order what he wants. If some staff decides to not accept his orders, if there is a kind of insurgence or -very unlikely- a coup, then Trups a goner. So whats the position of the armed forces figureheads. Are they loyal to the constitution? To Trump? To the Rep. party? If the Armed forces are loyal to the constitution, then there is no reason for fear of a dictatorship or the likes because such things never happen unlike the military at least approves it (or someone is capable of decapitating the military, like uncle Joe).
Because thats what finally sealed the fate of Germany: The armed forces not resisting Hitler and his thugs (hard enough) until it was far too late (1944).

So, while Trump may, or may not be able to fuck up your country (a bit, or considerably more), i dont see that he will shatter the very ground on which this country was founded. Not even a civil was was able to do that in the long run!

You cant take over a country, and keep control, without having the support of the armed forces, you simply cant.

Don't get me wrong, Trump turning America into some sort of fascist state would be a pretty fucking big change that seems highly unlikely, but let's recount some of the issues that may not be as apparent from outside the US:
1) Trump is very fucking hostile towards the free press. He has manipulated the hell out of it to help him stay in the news cycle constantly which helped get him elected, but he also plans on having a very tight grip on who covers him (Steve Bannon of the right-wing Breitbart News for a position as the White House Media Director anyone?). It isn't a good sign that what he wants is control over what is being covered about him via the news

2) The veterans and the military do support him. Sure, not all of them but a whole fucking lot of them backed him. And the military would support him if he throws more money towards the military budget too. Anyone who is about to make $$$ in a Trump presidency is going to love a Trump presidency.

3) The people who are armed to the teeth American citizens, also lean to the right and also would have been a primary piece of his voting block. If these people thought that they could join the military to help take back their country, they sure as hell would.

4) The cops love him. And not just any cops, the cops who think that transparency and highlighting police brutality means "anti-cop." The anti-anti-cop cops fucking love Trump too. Can you say "increase the militarization of the police force" five times fast?

5) We are going to be attacked by terrorists at some point again too. ISIS wasn't going to sit back and do nothing in a Hilary presidency either, but it would be less likely that she'd call for an all-out war if attacked (yes, she is hawkish but she'd also have likely done more to stay out of war than Trump). What will Trump try to do with a completely Republican Congress after the next attack?



So sure, it is hard to imagine that a Trump presidency somehow circumvents all of the checks and balances necessary to send the US into a spiral towards fascism, but it was hard to imagine that happening in Germany and it was hard to imagine Trump even getting elected. And while the comparison has been made of Trump being like Hitler, Trump could just be the guy to get the ball rolling. Pence takes over as president in an increasingly more militarized US and begins to slowly churn the US towards the theocracy that the evangelical conservatives want? What piece of the government could stop that right now?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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11-11-2016, 08:00 AM
RE: Trump's Demagoguery
Trump is still under the illusion apparently he can make up shit, Tweet it out, and that's apparently how the delusional fool thinks he can *lead* (cough cough) the country. He made up the lie that the demonstrations ALL OVER the US are being "driven" by the media. Of course he has not one shred of evidence for that.

The Electoral College has actually not voted yet. If the demonstrations were to radically increase, it is conceivable that some of the Electors would not vote for him, and Hillary DID win the popular vote, so there would be some justification for that move.
http://nypost.com/2016/11/09/the-one-sce...ite-house/
Not likely, but it could happen.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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