Trump's Immigration Ban
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31-01-2017, 11:40 AM
RE: Justice Dept. will not defend executive order on travel restrictions
(31-01-2017 09:12 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(31-01-2017 12:17 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  It's convoluted.

Basically a bill is proposed by either house. Then it goes to the other side (changes are usually made) then it returns to the original house....it can continue to go back and forth or die...or be ratified.

A usually simple majority is needed for ratifying a bill, then it goes to potus to be signed. If potus refuses then it can still be passed with 2/3 majority of both houses.

So yes, unless republicans jump ship and decide to vote with democrats and provided no dems jump their own ship, a bill or appotment will fail.

But it looks as though the only one brave enough might be Senator McCain...I dunno tho if he alone would try to stop all things PPP.

I guess what I'm saying that it shouldn't be a Democrat verses Republican thing. Some bills are passed with support of both parties.

But yes the numbers are what you basically describe.

Actually, the numbers are off. Remember that if someone "crosses over", it simultaneously adds one to the other side and subtracts one from his/her own side. So you don't need "one more than the difference" to cross over -- all you need is "one more than half the difference". So 3 would be enough in the Senate, and 25 would be enough in the House.

You're right...sorry for the confusion. I wasn't thinking clearly.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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31-01-2017, 11:45 AM
RE: Justice Dept. will not defend executive order on travel restrictions
(31-01-2017 11:40 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(31-01-2017 09:12 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Actually, the numbers are off. Remember that if someone "crosses over", it simultaneously adds one to the other side and subtracts one from his/her own side. So you don't need "one more than the difference" to cross over -- all you need is "one more than half the difference". So 3 would be enough in the Senate, and 25 would be enough in the House.

You're right...sorry for the confusion. I wasn't thinking clearly.

No problem -- I was really correcting the original poster (whoever you were responding to), not you.
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31-01-2017, 11:48 AM (This post was last modified: 31-01-2017 11:53 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Justice Dept. will not defend executive order on travel restrictions
(31-01-2017 11:30 AM)BryanS Wrote:  I don't find Buzzfeed to be a trustworthy source for anything, really.

So I read the BuzzFeed article before I posted obviously and found it rather dry and informational more than anything. Didn't see anything untrustworthy about it, didn't see any partisan take, saw factual comparisons to Obama's actions, read like an impersonal informational article to me. I didn't see anything objectionable. I try not to dismiss any source based on my biased personal opinion of their trustworthiness. But whatever.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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31-01-2017, 11:50 AM
RE: Trump's Immigration Ban
(30-01-2017 03:48 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(30-01-2017 03:42 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I just don't agree with simplistic take - "bad" person equal bad president.

I have no idea how Trump presidency will look like, nor I care much about this. I have plenty of clowns where I live.

There hasn't been a president in my lifetime (I'm 61) that I would call great, or maybe even good. They've just been bad in different ways, and some have been worse than others. It's hard to find a correlation between bad person and bad president when they're all bad presidents. However, at least one of them seemed to be a pretty decent human being, and that was Jimmy Carter. And he was undeniably a bad president.

I've heard this before about Carter, but also, he inherited a HUGE fucking mess that no one was going to fix in just one term -- and because of that mess he was guaranteed to be a one term president. I still believe Carter (and history has softened about him too) was one of the better presidents we've had in very long time.

Going further (it's sorta off topic) Reagan had nothing to do with the Iran hostages being freed either -- which Carter was vilified for. That was all Carter and he was humble about it, he didn't make a fuss when they were released while Reagan was being sworn in -- it was a simple statement (he practically cried). He was just happy the crisis was over and relieved they were coming home.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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31-01-2017, 12:07 PM
RE: Justice Dept. will not defend executive order on travel restrictions
(31-01-2017 11:48 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(31-01-2017 11:30 AM)BryanS Wrote:  I don't find Buzzfeed to be a trustworthy source for anything, really.

So I read the BuzzFeed article before I posted obviously and found it rather dry and informational more than anything. Didn't see anything untrustworthy about it, didn't see any partisan take, saw factual comparisons to Obama's actions, read like an impersonal informational article to me. I didn't see anything objectionable. I try not to dismiss any source based on my biased personal opinion of their trustworthiness. But whatever.

I did read the article, and the Buzzfeed article is extremely biased and selective in its reportage. Sloppy reporting of inaccurate and intentionally misleading information is something I have come to expect from them, and hence, why I do not trust anything they say. Here is a snippet of an example:

Quote:The DOJ official would not say if the Office of Legal Counsel found that Trump’s immigration order was lawful on its face, a narrow question that isn’t the same as whether DOJ lawyers believe an order could survive a court challenge. Even if the Office of Legal Counsel did find that the order was unlawful or otherwise problematic, that wouldn’t stop Trump from signing it. Its findings are binding on agencies, but not the president.

That assertion, that the DOJ official would not say if the OLC found the EO lawful on its face is provably false. Just look at NPR's article which said the exact opposite. This is lazy journalism that leaves out critical information which undercuts the writer's political point of view. Does this "reporter" actually mean to suggest that she discovered a review was done, but not what the results of the review were? That is a particularly relevant piece of information, but it was a question she didn't want to know the answer to. This is how political bias seeps into what otherwise looks like neutral reporting.

NPR, the source for my link above, may lean left. But they actually try to be journalists. Buzzfeed--not so much.
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31-01-2017, 12:11 PM
RE: Justice Dept. will not defend executive order on travel restrictions
I just hate biased *reportage*...whatever that is ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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31-01-2017, 12:14 PM
RE: Justice Dept. will not defend executive order on travel restrictions
(31-01-2017 12:11 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I just hate biased *reportage*...whatever that is ?

The dictionary is your friend:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reportage

1
a : the act or process of reporting news
b : something (such as news) that is reported

2
: writing intended to give an account of observed or documented events
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31-01-2017, 12:44 PM
RE: Trump's Immigration Ban
I think the concept of self fulfilling prophesy can be blamed for at least half the stuff we usually put on the president.

'Murican Canadian
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31-01-2017, 12:45 PM
RE: Trump's Immigration Ban
(31-01-2017 11:50 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(30-01-2017 03:48 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  There hasn't been a president in my lifetime (I'm 61) that I would call great, or maybe even good. They've just been bad in different ways, and some have been worse than others. It's hard to find a correlation between bad person and bad president when they're all bad presidents. However, at least one of them seemed to be a pretty decent human being, and that was Jimmy Carter. And he was undeniably a bad president.

I've heard this before about Carter, but also, he inherited a HUGE fucking mess that no one was going to fix in just one term -- and because of that mess he was guaranteed to be a one term president. I still believe Carter (and history has softened about him too) was one of the better presidents we've had in very long time.

Going further (it's sorta off topic) Reagan had nothing to do with the Iran hostages being freed either -- which Carter was vilified for. That was all Carter and he was humble about it, he didn't make a fuss when they were released while Reagan was being sworn in -- it was a simple statement (he practically cried). He was just happy the crisis was over and relieved they were coming home.

I think the hostage crisis was what did him in. If they had been released before the election, he might have won a second term, and history would have been different. I think he also had the same problem as Obama -- an inability to get much done because Congress fought him every step of the way. In both cases, I think the blame can be shared. Congress refused to compromise, but so did Carter and Obama.
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31-01-2017, 12:47 PM
RE: Trump's Immigration Ban
This thread needs some cheer:

Hitting Back At Trump's Executive Order, Starbucks CEO Vows To Hire 10,000 Refugees

Amazon Backs Suit Opposing Trump Immigration Executive Order, CEO Jeff Bezos Says

Tech Executives Fiercely Criticize Trump Immigration Order (Google, Twitter, Facebook, Apple)

Nike CEO Blasts Trump Executive Order Targeting Muslims, Refugees

Goldman Sachs CEO: Trump’s Executive Order on Immigration ‘Not a Policy We Support’

Netflix CEO: ‘Trump’s actions are so un-American it pains us all’

Big Grin

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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