Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
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24-06-2016, 11:58 AM
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
(24-06-2016 11:45 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Oh really. They elected Merkel. Remember. The one who's running Germany into the ground ... according to YOU. THAT's "learning your lesson" ?

I see.
We went from electing a genocidal maniac to electing an incompetent, bleeding heart politician. That's a huge improvement if you ask me. The American people OTOH are planning to elect someone who supported the same wars that GWB did - and more.

(24-06-2016 11:45 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nice try. I never said that.
Totally irrelevant and beside the point. He said on US TV today, he was voting for her. Too bad for you. If you have ANYTHING relevant to TODAY and her and this race, you can discuss THAT. I realize you think ONLY MEN candidates are worth your time, but this is SO far afield, it's laughable. Nice try at deflection and obfuscation. What he said about Bill is totally irrelevant.
No, that's just you being an ignorant clown again. Hillary plans to put her husband in charge of the economy, which happens to make Bernie's views on Bill Clinton very relevant to this election ("Do I have confidence that Clinton will stand up for the working people of this country—for children, for the elderly, for the folks who are hurting? No, I do not."). You do realize that everything Sanders criticized about Hillary Clinton is still completely true in spite of his decision to vote for her over Trump, right?

(24-06-2016 11:51 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No. I told you to support your claim that she was one of THE most corrupt politicians in US history. I want you to post here the points of comparison for how you came to that claim/conclusion. In detail. Otherwise, guess who's the liar here ?
Your reading comprehension still leaves much to be desired. I already addressed that particular point of criticism well over a month ago:

(19-05-2016 08:40 PM)Vosur Wrote:  In all seriousness, I don't really mind changing it to "one of the most corrupt politicians" since there is no objective way to measure corruption in terms of a numerical value that could be used for comparisons.

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24-06-2016, 12:05 PM
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
(24-06-2016 11:34 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(24-06-2016 11:30 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I don't generally have an issue with anyone from any country discussing American politics, but once they start urging Americans to vote this way or that I get a distinct feeling of unease -- after all, they don't generally have to live with the fallout of their advice; they don't have any skin in the game.

Ah, but I think Vosur's whole point here is that they do have skin in the game. America's foreign policy (which is largely determined by the President) has a major effect on other countries. The fallout of our election is exactly what he's worried about.

That's possible, but not a necessary result. It's not as if America dictates to the world their own policies. It's not as if his country must bow to the American will. It's not as if Germany must send troops out in support of our latest illegal invasion. If his country chooses to align itself with American foreign policy, to his disagreement, perhaps he should vote his own leaders out? That would seem to be a much more productive course of action.

Non-Americans don't have to live with the long-term ramifications of an election either -- such as abiding by the decisions made by a Supreme Court Justice.

If anything, I'd think the fallout would be more economic, but even that is not going to be affected much by the Presidency, but rather, the FRB policy as guided by its Chairman.

For these reasons, I think it's fair to point out that what to him is a hobby is to us Americans (especially in this particular election) a matter of critical importance.
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24-06-2016, 12:08 PM
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
(24-06-2016 11:58 AM)Vosur Wrote:  We went from electing a genocidal maniac to electing an incompetent, bleeding heart politician. That's a huge improvement if you ask me. The American people OTOH are planning to elect someone who supported the same wars that GWB did - and more.

She said it was a mistake.
I realize your hatred and bias against this woman blinds you to reality. Enumerate the "more".
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/hi...owa-118109

Quote:there is no objective way to measure corruption in terms of a numerical value that could be used for comparisons.

So you admit you have no way to justify making any claim about her corruption.
She has never been convicted of any crime. She is innocent until proven guilty. YOU are not judge, jury and executioner.

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24-06-2016, 12:28 PM
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
(24-06-2016 12:05 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(24-06-2016 11:34 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Ah, but I think Vosur's whole point here is that they do have skin in the game. America's foreign policy (which is largely determined by the President) has a major effect on other countries. The fallout of our election is exactly what he's worried about.

That's possible, but not a necessary result. It's not as if America dictates to the world their own policies. It's not as if his country must bow to the American will. It's not as if Germany must send troops out in support of our latest illegal invasion. If his country chooses to align itself with American foreign policy, to his disagreement, perhaps he should vote his own leaders out? That would seem to be a much more productive course of action.

What about the huge influx of Islamic immigrants into Germany and other European countries -- largely a result of Bush's disastrous Mideast policies? That is pretty much forced on them by us. We're not dictating their policy, but our policies have consequences, and those consequences are often unpleasant for other countries. Changing their own leaders won't help with this sort of thing.

Quote:Non-Americans don't have to live with the long-term ramifications of an election either -- such as abiding by the decisions made by a Supreme Court Justice.

If anything, I'd think the fallout would be more economic, but even that is not going to be affected much by the Presidency, but rather, the FRB policy as guided by its Chairman.

For these reasons, I think it's fair to point out that what to him is a hobby is to us Americans (especially in this particular election) a matter of critical importance.

I agree about the Supreme Court thing -- which is, for me, the most important issue in this election, and the reason why I will do anything (including voting for Clinton) to keep Trump out of the White House -- but I think it's a bit more than a hobby for Vosur. The issues that concern him are critical -- and they're critical for him as well as us.
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24-06-2016, 12:31 PM
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
(24-06-2016 12:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  She said it was a mistake.
I realize your hatred and bias against this woman blinds you to reality. Enumerate the "more".
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/hi...owa-118109
The guy who once said that he is praying for Trump's death is complaining about hate and bias? That's rich. You might not be aware of this fact, but Clinton has a long habit of changing her stance on political issues once it becomes politically advantageous to do so. She's a shameless opportunist. You can find a video of the self-proclaimed LGBT rights advocate talking about gay marriage before it became popular to advocate for it below. She did the same thing with the TPP, calling it the "gold standard" of trade deals at first and then claiming to have been opposed to it from the beginning once the public opinion turned against it. As for the "more"? How about the military intervention in Libya?



(24-06-2016 12:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So you admit you have no way to justify making any claim about her corruption.
She has never been convicted of any crime. She is innocent until proven guilty. YOU are not judge, jury and executioner.
No, what I admitted to is that I can't justify calling her the most corrupt politician because it's difficult, if not impossible to objectively quantify something as abstract as "corruption" for the purposes of a comparison with other US politicians throughout history. It looks like you didn't read the article from the International Business Times I posted earlier or else you wouldn't say that I have no justification for claiming that she's corrupt. And again, it's rich that you of all people would be the one to advocate an "innocent until proven guilty" approach after making numerous pre-emptive comments about the ongoing Trump University case.

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24-06-2016, 01:03 PM (This post was last modified: 24-06-2016 01:06 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
(24-06-2016 12:31 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(24-06-2016 12:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  She said it was a mistake.
I realize your hatred and bias against this woman blinds you to reality. Enumerate the "more".
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/hi...owa-118109
The guy who once said that he is praying for Trump's death is complaining about hate and bias? That's rich. You might not be aware of this fact, but Clinton has a long habit of changing her stance on political issues once it becomes politically advantageous to do so. She's a shameless opportunist. You can find a video of the self-proclaimed LGBT rights advocate talking about gay marriage before it became popular to advocate for it below. She did the same thing with the TPP, calling it the "gold standard" of trade deals at first and then claiming to have been opposed to it from the beginning once the public opinion turned against it. As for the "more"? How about the military intervention in Libya?



(24-06-2016 12:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So you admit you have no way to justify making any claim about her corruption.
She has never been convicted of any crime. She is innocent until proven guilty. YOU are not judge, jury and executioner.
No, what I admitted to is that I can't justify calling her the most corrupt politician because it's difficult, if not impossible to objectively quantify something as abstract as "corruption" for the purposes of a comparison with other US politicians throughout history. It looks like you didn't read the article from the International Business Times I posted earlier or else you wouldn't say that I have no justification for claiming that she's corrupt. And again, it's rich that you of all people would be the one to advocate an "innocent until proven guilty" approach after making numerous pre-emptive comments about the ongoing Trump University case.

Oh right. The one talks about "learning lessons" can't handle the fact that people, (including politicians) can change their views over time, and maybe learn lessons, without doubting everything they do as "opportunistic" because they hate them blindly.

What's rich is that you have her down as "corrupt" yet allow Trump to skate, as he's not convicted. See how that works ? YOU can't have it both ways. She's not even indicted. Trump is on trial, and the NY Attorney General says he is ready to try him also in NY. No one is trying Hillary for anything. Yet you call her "corrupt".
Your bias is in the open for all to see.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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24-06-2016, 01:54 PM (This post was last modified: 24-06-2016 02:03 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
(24-06-2016 12:07 AM)Vosur Wrote:  .... you demonstrated that you have no clue about cyber security when you proposed that Clinton may have taken top secret information from the JWICS and put it on her private server with the intention of keeping it in a more secure place.

I can't find where BuckminsterFullersBalls says that but that is virtually impossible except for an inside threat. You need an Edwina Manning or a Bradley Snowden for that. .... SIPRNET is a different story. Chinese are all over that. At this point it's a means for spreading disinformation to the PRC.

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24-06-2016, 01:57 PM
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
(23-06-2016 09:25 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(23-06-2016 09:17 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  So tell me how does "run something into the ground" without involving "the economy". What's she gonna do to run your country into the ground without involving "the economy".
....
You're a disingenuous fuck. I used to respect your opinion and then you took an arrow to the head.
Jeez, at least do me the courtesy of giving me a chance to respond to your question before you call me disingenuous.

Where did I say that was a bad thing? Provide the quote.

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24-06-2016, 02:06 PM
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
(24-06-2016 01:03 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Oh right. The one talks about "learning lessons" can't handle the fact that people, (including politicians) can change their views over time, and maybe learn lessons, without doubting everything they do as "opportunistic" because they hate them blindly.
Ah, yes, when a Republican like Mitt Romney or Donald Trump changes his mind about an issue, it's flip-flopping, but when a Democrat like Hillary Clinton does the same, it's "changing their view over time" or "learning a lesson." No bias there whatsoever.

(24-06-2016 01:03 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  What's rich is that you have her down as "corrupt" yet allow Trump to skate, as he's not convicted. See how that works ? YOU can't have it both ways. She's not even indicted. Trump is on trial, and the NY Attorney General says he is ready to try him also in NY. No one is trying Hillary for anything. Yet you call her "corrupt".
Your bias is in the open for all to see.
I have no interest in defending Trump over the University case. Never have, never will. That being said, why do you keep putting the word corrupt in quotes? Just read the article and educate yourself on the topic, you lazy, disingenuous sack of shit.

(24-06-2016 01:57 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Where did I say that was a bad thing? Provide the quote.
Which quote?

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24-06-2016, 02:09 PM
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
(24-06-2016 02:06 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(24-06-2016 01:57 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Where did I say that was a bad thing? Provide the quote.
Which quote?

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