Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
26-06-2016, 09:34 AM
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
Facepalm

"I know you are, but what what am I?"

"I'm rubber, you're glue."

"Liar-liar! Pants on fire!"

"Nyahnyahnah-boo boo, stick your head in doo-doo!"

This thread, I fucking swear it's like a kindergarten playground. Sadly, that's just about what political discourse has been for... well, a while. It's why kindergartners act the way that they act. Monkey see, monkey do.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Old Man Marsh's post
26-06-2016, 10:49 AM
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
(26-06-2016 02:09 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(26-06-2016 01:57 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Citing Hitchens's opinion on politics is a classic appeal to authority fallacy. Hitchens is neither a politician nor a political scientist.
Not quite. I never incorporated Hitchen's opinion, who indeed is not an authority on this topic, into any of my arguments against Clinton. I simply posted a video of his views because many people in the atheist community respect him as an intellectual and because his criticisms, unlike mine, are not centered around her hawkish foreign policy decisions because he supported the Iraq war as well (albeit for different reasons than Clinton).

You admit to posting that video on the assumption that respect for his position as an atheist would make his political critiques more appealing?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Thumpalumpacus's post
26-06-2016, 11:03 AM
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
(26-06-2016 10:49 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  You admit to posting that video on the assumption that respect for his position as an atheist would make his political critiques more appealing?
No, not for his position as an atheist. In the post you responded to, I said, verbatim, "because many people in the atheist community respect him as an intellectual".

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-06-2016, 04:26 PM
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
... which is still not an authority on matters political.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-06-2016, 01:03 AM
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
(26-06-2016 04:26 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  ... which is still not an authority on matters political.

We agree on that point. I don't think I've tried to argue otherwise ever since you first brought it up (see below).

(26-06-2016 02:09 AM)Vosur Wrote:  [...] Hitchen's opinion, who indeed is not an authority on this topic, [...]

I do think that there's an argument to be made that there's no such thing as an "authority" when it comes to political matters, but I would have to do more research before I would feel equipped to defend that view in a discussion. As for the current matter, I have to admit that it was a mistake to bring up Hitchen's views the way I did. I would do it differently if I could go back in time so as to avoid giving anyone the impression that I was citing him as an authority on the subject. Since I can't do that, I'll just have to own up to it and explain myself. Over the course of this thread, I've supported many of my arguments against the points my opponents raised with reputable, well-known sources (IBT, CNN, NYT, Huffington Post, etc.), but no one on the opposing side ever bothered to read and/or address their content. I figured if these sources couldn't sway their minds, maybe the arguments of a person they respect for his honesty and critical thinking could. I hope you can see that I used it as a last resort.

My apologies to Bucky Ball for using such a cheap rhetorical trick.

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Vosur's post
27-06-2016, 06:13 AM
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
(26-06-2016 01:57 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Citing Hitchens's opinion on politics is a classic appeal to authority fallacy. Hitchens is neither a politician nor a political scientist.

He had a bachelor's degree in politics, philosophy, and economics from Balliol College of Oxford University. He was not unqualified.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Chas's post
27-06-2016, 05:44 PM
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
(27-06-2016 06:13 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-06-2016 01:57 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Citing Hitchens's opinion on politics is a classic appeal to authority fallacy. Hitchens is neither a politician nor a political scientist.

He had a bachelor's degree in politics, philosophy, and economics from Balliol College of Oxford University. He was not unqualified.

Hitchens is about as much of an expert in political matters as one could hope for, IMO.
It's not an appeal to authority fallacy if he can reasonably be considered an expert in the field (which it seems he is), and also presents supporting evidence (which he did).
I won't proclaim to be unbiased though since I've already been a Hillary hater for a while, which has almost everything to do with the email server thing, since I would literally be in jail if I had done the same thing. An unfair double standard if I ever saw one, and unacceptable for a presidential candidate IMO. This does not does equate to an endorsement for Drumpf.
Thankfully I'm in California, where the state can comfortably go to Hillary even if 10% vote 3rd party, so I get to vote with a clear conscious while not supporting either her or Trump, while still allowing the "best" candidate to win (since I do think she'd be marginally better than Drumpf at not causing WW3).

"just an FYI: There are 2 kinds of people in the world -- those who divide everybody into 2 kinds of people & those who don't." Neil deGrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes MustangManda's post
27-06-2016, 05:47 PM (This post was last modified: 27-06-2016 05:51 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
(26-06-2016 11:03 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(26-06-2016 10:49 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  You admit to posting that video on the assumption that respect for his position as an atheist would make his political critiques more appealing?
No, not for his position as an atheist. In the post you responded to, I said, verbatim, "because many people in the atheist community respect him as an intellectual".

Are you disagreeing with the statement he was an intellectual? If so, you got no fucking clue what the word means. If not, are not intellectuals respected by the community?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-06-2016, 05:51 PM
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
My opinion of his claimed expertise is no doubt colored by his views on the Iraq war, which in my mind and many others was a political miscalculation of the first order.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Thumpalumpacus's post
27-06-2016, 05:57 PM
RE: Trump's speech on Hillary Clinton's record
(27-06-2016 05:51 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  My opinion of his claimed expertise is no doubt colored by his views on the Iraq war, which in my mind and many others was a political miscalculation of the first order.

Understandable. But his biggest mistake was a physiological miscalculation. Heavy drinker, heavy smoker farts out his ass "Why don't I try this waterboarding myself and write on it?" Hello esophageal cancer.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like GirlyMan's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: