Trump says: Take their guns away
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18-09-2016, 01:01 PM
RE: Trump says: Take their guns away
(18-09-2016 12:58 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-09-2016 07:53 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  The Washington Post noted that for every criminal killed in self-defense thirty-four innocent people die. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk...eople-die/

The need for "self-defense" is a red herring.

Apples and oranges: Remove the suicides from those numbers.

How very kind of you. Wonder if we removed the guns how many of those suicides would have gone away?

.... Consider .... there's probably a study out there. lemme look.

#sigh
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18-09-2016, 01:09 PM
RE: Trump says: Take their guns away
(17-09-2016 11:47 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  
(17-09-2016 11:24 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Obvious to me what he meant.

Liberal politicians call for gun control while surrounding themselves with armed guards and police.

The common person doesn't get armed guards nor do they get police outside of their house 24 hours a day. The common person has live with the chance that they will be assaulted, raped, robbed or murdered. The 2nd amendment lets people defend themselves.

His point: Without her guards she'd be at the mercy of criminals like the rest of us are.

No conspiracy here. Just truth.
In America, at this point in the election, I would think that it would not be ordinary criminals she had to worry about but the possibility large numbers of less than fully intelligent characters walking about with a chip on their shoulder, a few beers in their bellies and a gun in their pocket.

Is not the Rump also entitled to official protection as a candidate? If not I would be very surprised if he did not have private armed bodyguards.

Yes he gets secret service protection, and even if he loses he will still get the protection for a number of months, maybe years I don't recall.
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18-09-2016, 01:13 PM
RE: Trump says: Take their guns away
(18-09-2016 10:54 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(18-09-2016 10:39 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  Good enough.




Right. let him off hat chain and see what happens!
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18-09-2016, 01:14 PM
RE: Trump says: Take their guns away
(18-09-2016 07:03 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(17-09-2016 07:23 PM)Dom Wrote:  She is not proposing to disarm the country for crying out loud.


But she's willing to lie and say the most outrageous stuff to "prove her point" --- such as ---

"What about the young mom with her two kids who’s in a supermarket, and some guy gets to come in with a — you know — an AK-47 over his back because he’s got a new permit that permits him to walk around and threaten and intimidate and scare the heck out of that young mother and her children? I don’t get it.”


Hillary Clinton –Facebook, August 2015


Yeah -- she "doesn't get it" -- that's for sure......

There is NO permit - anywhere in the US that allows you to "threaten and intimidate"...

She's just blowing smoke out her ass -- and people let her get away with it...

Anyone carrying a rifle into Walmart is doing it for no other reason except to threaten and intimidate.
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18-09-2016, 01:23 PM
RE: Trump says: Take their guns away
(18-09-2016 01:01 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-09-2016 12:58 PM)Chas Wrote:  Apples and oranges: Remove the suicides from those numbers.

How very kind of you. Wonder if we removed the guns how many of those suicides would have gone away?

.... Consider .... there's probably a study out there. lemme look.

Why of course there are. This is a public health notice from Harvard. Guns and suicide: A fatal link

I've requested access to the full text they are referencing.

Miller & Hemenway, The Relationship Between Firearms and Suicide: A Review of the Literature, Aggression and Violent Behavior 4(1):59-75 · March 1999

Abstract:

Suicide rates are affected by many factors—psychiatric, biological, familial and situational. This paper focuses on one potential risk factor for completed suicide in the United States—the availability of firearms. Whether the availability of firearms might increase the rate of attempted suicide is not examined. This article is not an exhaustive review of every existing firearm-related suicide study. Rather, it provides a detailed review of the most commonly cited, representative, and thorough empirical studies in the published peer-reviewed literature relating firearms and suicide, focusing largely on the United States. The empirical studies reviewed are grouped according to whether the unit of analysis is the individual (e.g., case-control studies) or a population (e.g., ecological studies) and further divided depending on whether the analysis uses cross-sectional or time-series (longitudinal) data. We begin with a very brief overview of the suicide problem in the United States.


Wait. This doesn't seem the right thread for this. Where should I move this to?

#sigh
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18-09-2016, 01:31 PM
RE: Trump says: Take their guns away
(18-09-2016 12:58 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-09-2016 07:53 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  The Washington Post noted that for every criminal killed in self-defense thirty-four innocent people die. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk...eople-die/

The need for "self-defense" is a red herring.

Apples and oranges: Remove the suicides from those numbers.
Those people aren't dead?
Quote:Red herring: The comparison is invalid - compare the number with the number of crimes stopped, not criminals killed.
Go ahead. I'll be here.
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18-09-2016, 01:41 PM
RE: Trump says: Take their guns away
(18-09-2016 01:23 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Abstract:

Suicide rates are affected by many factors—psychiatric, biological, familial and situational. This paper focuses on one potential risk factor for completed suicide in the United States—the availability of firearms. Whether the availability of firearms might increase the rate of attempted suicide is not examined. This article is not an exhaustive review of every existing firearm-related suicide study. Rather, it provides a detailed review of the most commonly cited, representative, and thorough empirical studies in the published peer-reviewed literature relating firearms and suicide, focusing largely on the United States. The empirical studies reviewed are grouped according to whether the unit of analysis is the individual (e.g., case-control studies) or a population (e.g., ecological studies) and further divided depending on whether the analysis uses cross-sectional or time-series (longitudinal) data. We begin with a very brief overview of the suicide problem in the United States.

Wrong study? Consider

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-09-2016, 01:42 PM
RE: Trump says: Take their guns away
(18-09-2016 01:31 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(18-09-2016 12:58 PM)Chas Wrote:  Apples and oranges: Remove the suicides from those numbers.
Those people aren't dead?
Quote:Red herring: The comparison is invalid - compare the number with the number of crimes stopped, not criminals killed.
Go ahead. I'll be here.

I've done that since I'm not willfully ignorant. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-09-2016, 01:43 PM
RE: Trump says: Take their guns away
(18-09-2016 01:41 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-09-2016 01:23 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Abstract:

Wrong study? Consider

It might be. I inferred it from Miller's list of pubs. Do you see a different one?

#sigh
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18-09-2016, 01:52 PM
RE: Trump says: Take their guns away
Ever notice how ardent gunners are sublimely dismissive of other people's deaths? "Meh, can't count that one, it was on a Thursday!"
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