Trump shared classified info to Russians
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19-05-2017, 03:49 AM (This post was last modified: 19-05-2017 03:55 AM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(18-05-2017 09:07 PM)Alla Wrote:  
RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:Now that a Democrat passed it
Why did they do it? Why did Obama signed it?
So, is this a good idea to repeal this Republican Obamacare?

Others have already given excellent responses to these questions.

The Democrats caved to donor pressure and a strong propaganda campaign by the Republicans which convinced them (for various reasons, each) that they should give up immediately on the idea of single-payer. They called it a nonstarter. The Republicans were making it clear they'd filibuster and block any bills and basically shut down the government if single payer was the bill. So the Dems shifted to adopting a plan almost identical to what the Republicans had been pushing, in a spirit of compromise, feeling they should get "something" done. They thought this would satisfy the Conservatives, but it only emboldened them to start fighting for something even more right-wing than what they originally had embraced, themselves.

So yes, I would like to see this Obamacare abolished and replaced with a system that operates like the rest of Western Civilization (and most of Eastern, as I understand it), so we can cut out the for-profit, "if I pay your claim I lose money so NO, now fight me in court if you want to survive your kidney failure" mega-corporations that currently sit astride the cash flow between sick people (or the government subsidizing them) and the health care providers like doctors and hospitals. It's just a big ol' leech, sucking the blood and the humanity out of the system. And getting rid of it has turned out to save other countries a lot of money. It hasn't happened here because they spend $500,000,000 a year or more on lobbying against single payer ideas becoming law, shaping the laws that are passed to favor the companies, and all the other ways money in politics corrupts.

Please learn that the things happening in the collapsing years of the Soviet Union, when the nation's economy basically collapsed under its own weight, do not necessarily indicate and inherent flaw in the [edit: healthcare] system. The problems of the Soviet Union that led to their economic and political collapse are myriad and complex, but do not reflect the reality of what we're discussing, here. If you're suggesting that having citizens spend their income in a smaller amount of tax than overwhelmingly most of them would spend on private profiteers, so that they all live in a society where health is a right of a free citizen, is going to destroy societies the way the Soviet Union collapsed, then you need to look at the model of every other first world nation-- how's Australia doing, with their system? We have plenty of Aussies here. Maybe Dale can lecture you on the benefits he has received from such a system. Their economy, with its living wage minimum wage and free healthcare, seems to be doing pretty well, and their people pretty happy. Well, as happy as Aussies let you see them get, anyway.

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19-05-2017, 06:26 AM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(18-05-2017 09:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  Dom, thanks for the answer.

Dom Wrote:There is only one insurance company. It has all the power to negotiate with doctors and suppliers for the best rates.
Why would this one company with ALL THE POWER wanted to negotiate the best rates? Would it be a private company?

Dom Wrote:Everyone who works pays a tax that is lower than insurance premiums are now
Would everyone who works pay the same amount? what is lower premium? can you give me approximate amount?

Dom Wrote:The government covers for non paying ill people.
With what money?

The company would not have any stock holders to feed. It would not make a profit.

You don't make a profit off the backs of the ill or dying. Currently insurance companies make lots of money and people who have a long illness lose everything trying to pay for it.

As you have experienced yourself, the government pays for the ones who are unable now, also. That is nothing new, except that now you are in debt.

Now the money comes out of everything else in the government budget. With a single payer system, if you work, both you and your employer pay for it, and the cost is a lot lower because you have eliminated the stock holders and corporate profits. The money goes a lot further.

The thing is, if you go to the doc on a regular basis, illnesses will be detected much earlier. That way, you can avoid becoming very ill, which is nice for you and for the cost of health care. If you wait until you are so sick that you have to go to the emergency room, the government now ends up paying for it, and it will be much higher than regular doc visits would have been.

People die all the time because they did not go to the doc for yearly checkups and illnesses are allowed to progress too far. And they die after super expensive treatments. It is cruel and inefficient.

The current system is super expensive and kills people, and Trump's proposal is even worse.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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19-05-2017, 09:35 AM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(19-05-2017 12:57 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  GERMANY IS GREATLIER COUNTRY! AMERICA...SO SAD.

Don't make us go all Dresden on your asses again.

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19-05-2017, 11:49 AM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(19-05-2017 09:35 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(19-05-2017 12:57 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  GERMANY IS GREATLIER COUNTRY! AMERICA...SO SAD.

Don't make us go all Dresden on your asses again.

At least the Dresdeners will be covered by a proper health insurance. Angel

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19-05-2017, 08:09 PM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(19-05-2017 06:26 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(18-05-2017 09:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  Dom, thanks for the answer.

Why would this one company with ALL THE POWER wanted to negotiate the best rates? Would it be a private company?

Would everyone who works pay the same amount? what is lower premium? can you give me approximate amount?

With what money?

The company would not have any stock holders to feed. It would not make a profit.

You don't make a profit off the backs of the ill or dying. Currently insurance companies make lots of money and people who have a long illness lose everything trying to pay for it.

As you have experienced yourself, the government pays for the ones who are unable now, also. That is nothing new, except that now you are in debt.

Now the money comes out of everything else in the government budget. With a single payer system, if you work, both you and your employer pay for it, and the cost is a lot lower because you have eliminated the stock holders and corporate profits. The money goes a lot further.

The thing is, if you go to the doc on a regular basis, illnesses will be detected much earlier. That way, you can avoid becoming very ill, which is nice for you and for the cost of health care. If you wait until you are so sick that you have to go to the emergency room, the government now ends up paying for it, and it will be much higher than regular doc visits would have been.

People die all the time because they did not go to the doc for yearly checkups and illnesses are allowed to progress too far. And they die after super expensive treatments. It is cruel and inefficient.

The current system is super expensive and kills people, and Trump's proposal is even worse.

Alla, did you see this?

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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19-05-2017, 08:25 PM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
TO DOM


Thanks for the answer. Yes, I just finished to read it. Single payer sounds great actually.

I have a question. What about those young adults who are able to work but don't want to work (I know there are people like this), what are they going to contribute?
It would be wrong to help people like this.

RS76, thanks for your answer.

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19-05-2017, 08:36 PM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(19-05-2017 08:25 PM)Alla Wrote:  TO DOM


Thanks for the answer. Yes, I just finished to read it. Single payer sounds great actually.

I have a question. What about those young adults who are able to work but don't want to work (I know there are people like this), what are they going to contribute?
It would be wrong to help people like this.

RS76, thanks for your answer.

I don't know, I doubt there are many. But I wouldn't let them die in the streets...

Single payer is great, and the countries who have it are all advanced and financially sound and many have used the system for decades. So it's not like we would have to invent something new, there is something that we already know works.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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19-05-2017, 08:39 PM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
WOW! What a difference between Idaho and Maryland!
Even though you call us all stupid I am not angry at you at all. The way you say it. Umm,... kind of like angry father who really cares.

So, in your opinion, why are Republicans against single payer? real reason?

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19-05-2017, 08:53 PM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
The real reason? I just listed it in a link in my previous post.

$500,000,000 paid into their pockets for re-election campaigns, if they just vote the right way.

They are supported financially by companies who stand to lose billions if they stop being able to sponge off the life's blood of our population. All the rest is just smoke and mirrors. No one who looks objectively at the data concludes that it's better to have private companies treating our bodies like commodities.

As for the non-working 25 year old, why shouldn't we support their health? Maybe it's better to live in a country where I know no one will ever die because they can't get treatment than it is to live in a country where I can express moral disapproval at some lazy 25 year old who gets their comeuppance in the form of a cancer they can't afford to treat. Instead of expressing joy that I didn't pay for them, I express joy that a life was saved, even a life most would consider worthless. Maybe they're not worthless, just because they're not working. Maybe all human life has value.

And maybe that lazy 25 year old gets a wake up call from the cancer and goes on to do something great-- like write the Next Great American Novel™ about their cancer experience, for instance.

Investing in my fellow human beings, my fellow countrymen, to be free of fear of not being covered (and bankruptcy even if they are, usually), and to live lives that are more productive, is not something I begrudge, even if a few of my countrymen don't really deserve it.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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19-05-2017, 09:01 PM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(19-05-2017 08:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  WOW! What a difference between Idaho and Maryland!
Even though you call us all stupid I am not angry at you at all. The way you say it. Umm,... kind of like angry father who really cares.

So, in your opinion, why are Republicans against single payer? real reason?

Money. All that money made off the backs of sick people.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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