Trump shared classified info to Russians
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23-05-2017, 08:52 AM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(23-05-2017 07:57 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I'm much more angry at the notion of the Reagan-era "Welfare Queen" myth which, while true in exceptionally rare cases, is not true in the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of cases, yet is used by the wealthy class to convince people who are barely scraping by that they both have a common enemy against which they should ally. It's akin to saying that because the Communist Party of the Soviet Union contained many evil, opportunistic sociopaths, we should consider all Russians and Ukranians and Latvians (etc) to be write-offs as moral actors. It's horse shit.

The myth of the person mooching off the state while not wanting to work is only true in a tiny, tiny fraction of cases. Yet this propaganda about the "welfare queen" concept-- the woman Reagan invented out of thin air, who was supposedly making $150,000 a year off public assistance while doing nothing but soaking up "our" resources-- has so seeped into the public mind that no amount of statistics and proof seems to reach people who believe it. That's the part I can't understand. People seem impervious to facts.

So please, Alla, and anyone else who might want to opine on this subject, learn the facts before you comment again.

The reality is that long-term public assistance is mainly for people who are disabled and unable to work, or who cannot work jobs that would pay them very well due to injury, illness, or partial disability (e.g. mental problems), and the type against which people complain is for those who have fallen onto a temporary setback-- divorce, loss of a career, illness in the family, etc.-- and need assistance to get back onto their feet again. And almost all of them do; public assistance is not permanent for anyone not in the disabled category, and the average time spent on public assistance is only three years.

So why is it so bad to have a society in which we say to our fellow citizens, "You need not starve, or become homeless, or die, if tragedy happens to you?"

I understand that there are different opinions about the way these assistance programs should be handled, and I'm fine with that. But for the people who wish to allow America to go back to the days of the Great Depression and to renege on the New Deal simply because they are moralizers who base their allegedly moral position on some Grand Ideal™ of the right way to live one's life (that just doesn't happen to have any basis in reality) makes me so furious I can feel the veins in my forehead start to stand up.

It's pretty fucking simple: if you are willing to see your fellow Americans suffer and die, needlessly, because you think you'll save a few bucks, you're not a moral person, nor a patriot. And ironically, it turns out that helping people actually saves tax money.

A lie that ties into a strongly held prejudice is one of the toughest to let go. Especially if everyone around you has been reinforcing it since childhood. The reason this seems to affect conservatives more is, I think, due to their affinity for canned explanations. They abhor uncertainty and nuance.

Most poor people simply want a fair shake, an opportunity to earn a living and actually hate to have to depend on others.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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23-05-2017, 09:23 AM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
I understand the desire not to subsidize moochers. I don't think the problem is big enough to worry about, but even if there are able-bodied people who aren't working, paying their medical bills isn't subsidizing their unwillingness to work, it's giving them options other than the emergency room for their healthcare needs. Able-bodied people who aren't working aren't going to be buying insurance anyway, so their healthcare costs are going to fall upon the public anyway. It doesn't seem to make sense to oppose a single-payer healthcare system given those facts. Such people are likely already being subsidized by medicaid and other programs for the poor, so you aren't preventing mooching, you're just shifting the cost around.
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23-05-2017, 10:14 AM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
I think its a difficult problem for America its cultural as well as economic, I think the idea of a healthcare system for all based on equality is perceived by many to be a short step towards a socialist ideology and many Americans are absolutely terrified of anything with the word socialism attached to it.
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23-05-2017, 11:19 AM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(23-05-2017 09:23 AM)big green mouth Wrote:  I understand the desire not to subsidize moochers.

Which is why I find it strange that they don't want to abolish private insurance companies, since that's what they're doing is mooching off the transactions between healthcare providers and sick patients.

But the rest of your points are dead on.

To Adey:
I'm also surprised at those who think of this as a form of socialism. I mean, I suppose it is, but only in the same way that the US Army socialized private militias, the US Navy socialized our early fleet of Privateers, and the US Postal Service socializes the work that is also being done by UPS and FedEx, giving people a "public option" that ensures costs are competitive. Guess those don't count.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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23-05-2017, 11:51 AM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(23-05-2017 11:19 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  ... I'm also surprised at those who think of this as a form of socialism ...

Any cohort of a species whose signature success is its socialism that thinks socialism is "evil" is dangerously neurotic.
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23-05-2017, 12:15 PM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
Well, Alla is going to get her wish. Trump wants to cut Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps etc in a big way and funnel the money to the military i.e. the weapons industry.

He is going to make the weapons industry very wealthy, not only building them for the US but also getting them contracts to supply all over the world.

Maybe we have been looking at the wrong industries to see how he benefits.....

Meanwhile, tons of retired people will be either starving or dying in the streets. We gots to take our picks - buy meds and live to starve or buy food and die from illness.

Maybe Alla will wake up when her family members die, or when she gets to face the facts herself...

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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23-05-2017, 12:18 PM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
The country with the strongest military in the world needs moar military? For what?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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23-05-2017, 12:53 PM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(23-05-2017 12:15 PM)Dom Wrote:  Well, Alla is going to get her wish. Trump wants to cut Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps etc in a big way and funnel the money to the military i.e. the weapons industry.

He is going to make the weapons industry very wealthy, not only building them for the US but also getting them contracts to supply all over the world.

Maybe we have been looking at the wrong industries to see how he benefits.....

Meanwhile, tons of retired people will be either starving or dying in the streets. We gots to take our picks - buy meds and live to starve or buy food and die from illness.

Maybe Alla will wake up when her family members die, or when she gets to face the facts herself...

That may be his prettily printed "wish list" for the 2018 budget, but Congress does not work for the President, and the Budget Committees of the House and Senate will craft their own budget proposals. And in an election year, much of the Trump budget is poison - especially to the House where ALL of the seats are up for grabs in 2018. It was easy to rant and rave against the budget when Democrats had a say in it, but now that Republicans control House, Senate, and WH, it is their baby. There will undoubtedly be some stuff we hate in it, but they won't pass the Trump Budget as proposed. They still have to face their own constituents at some point, unless they have given up on running for reelection. Checks and balances.

I honestly think some of the Senators (ones not up for reelection next year) would be secretly relieved if the House Democrats gained a majority. That way, the House and Senate could point fingers at each other for "obstructing" whatever stupid promises they made during a campaign or town hall meeting. And they can appease a President by saying: "Oh, WE wanted to do what you asked, but THEY stopped it. Blame them, not us."
Second Rule of Politics: "Have someone else to blame." (The First Rule of Politics is, of course: "Say what you have to to get elected.")

I’ll be a story in your head, but that’s okay, because we’re all stories in the end. Just make it a good one, eh? Because it was, you know. It was the best.
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23-05-2017, 12:58 PM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
Perhaps alla thinks the harder she try's to be hardcore republican American the more American she will become, perhaps to mentally shift her soviet past, I'm greatly disappointed as I had thought she had made such improvement. Sad
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23-05-2017, 01:11 PM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(23-05-2017 12:58 PM)adey67 Wrote:  Perhaps alla thinks the harder she try's to be hardcore republican American the more American she will become, perhaps to mentally shift her soviet past, I'm greatly disappointed as I had thought she had made such improvement. Sad

People don't change so easily.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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