Trump shared classified info to Russians
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16-05-2017, 09:54 PM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
earmuffs Wrote:Lol, you can't make this shit up.
Trump supporters hound Hillary for potentially giving up classified information. Trump then lets Russian spies into the Oval Office and tells them classified information directly...
evidence? please, give me evidence.
We know what crooked Hillary did. FBI director Comey laid out FACTS. After that he said that crooked Hillary was too stupid/ignorant to understand that she broke laws.
Obama gave evil Putin flexibility. Putin got the message, Ukraine was invaded. "Thank" you, Obama.

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16-05-2017, 09:56 PM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(16-05-2017 09:27 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Heath_ Tierney Wrote:What would it take for you to stop supporting Trump? How far does he have to go?
So, where's the line? What does he have to do (or not do) for you to withdraw your support?
My honest answer:
Facts. Facts will stop me. Not allegations.
Do you agree with me that so far we have only allegations?
Do you agree with me that many hate Trump and want to destroy him?
When people hate they do ugly things.
I don't trust those who hate.
So, yes, FACTS - the truth will stop me.
It is a fact that Trump lied about inauguration numbers.
It is a fact that Trump lied about the degree of his electoral win.
It is a fact that Trump made up the allegations about the wiretapping.
It is a fact that Trump gave Russia code word classified secret information.
It is a fact that Flynn had been communicating with the Russians during the campaign and had lied to deny it.
It is a fact that Sessions had been communicating with the Russians and had initially denied this.
It is a fact that Trump had the Russian collusion investigation on mind when he decided to fire Comey.
It is a fact that Trump and his officials were warned about Flynn and the Russian situation and sat on it for several weeks.
It is a fact that Trump's initial attempt at the travel ban was unconstitutional.
It is a fact that the FBI believe there is reason to investigate the claims of Russian collusion.
It is a fact that the FBI have investigated the wiretapping claim and found no evidence or smoke in support of it.


It seems highly likely that the Russians interfered with the USA presidential election.
It seems highly likely that Trump asked The FBI Director to proclaim loyalty to him.
It seems highly likely that Trump asked the FBI Director to stop investigating Flynn.
It seems highly likely that Trump fired the FBI Director because he continued on these investigations.

The Nunes affair with the secret meetings etc is highly suspicious.
The Sessions recommendation to fire Comey is highly suspicious.
The timing of the Comey firing is highly suspicious.

If you walk around saying that this administration is operating well and is above board and that there is no smoke, no unusual behaviour, nothing worth investigating then I really don't want to say how that reflects on you.
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16-05-2017, 10:06 PM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(16-05-2017 09:46 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(16-05-2017 09:36 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Hillary didn't give it up, she had it on a non authorised server which was illegally hacked by Russia.

Trump hands the info over to the Russians personally, they probably didn't even ask for it.
Now the Republicans just come up with excuses. Oh, he's the pres, he can do whatever he wants.

Thus "potential giving up".

It's ridiculous. The hypocrisy of it never ceases to amaze me.
Thank god we live in NZ Stevil, at least there will be another person to post on this forum besides myself when Trump accidentally launches a nuke at China.
Well, unfortunately Northern hemisphere air mixes with Southern hemisphere air, so we aren't immune to nuclear fall out. These guys better sort their shit out.

I'm fascinated though by the ability for the complex USA system to moderate a rouge government. Trump is certainly giving it a decent test. If it works, shit, i'd be all for NZ in some ways implementing a constitution and some checks and balances on a potential leader. Although I do think the US system is overly complex, tiresome and somewhat comical.

But we aren't so extreme here, National and Labor supporters aren't so poles apart. We all agree on national health system, we all agree on family planning and option for abortion, we all agree that hand guns for personal protection is more trouble than the problem that it "solves". Labor swings a bit more towards socialism, National a bit more towards capitalism, but its not that big of a deal.
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16-05-2017, 10:07 PM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(16-05-2017 09:54 PM)Alla Wrote:  
earmuffs Wrote:Lol, you can't make this shit up.
Trump supporters hound Hillary for potentially giving up classified information. Trump then lets Russian spies into the Oval Office and tells them classified information directly...
evidence? please, give me evidence.
We know what crooked Hillary did. FBI director Comey laid out FACTS. After that he said that crooked Hillary was too stupid/ignorant to understand that she broke laws.
Obama gave evil Putin flexibility. Putin got the message, Ukraine was invaded. "Thank" you, Obama.

Evidence that Trump leaked classified information to the Russians? Will you accept that after the news broke, Trump tweeted saying he he had an "absolute right" to share information?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/stat...2567471104
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/stat...9472049152

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/16/politi...sia-right/

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16-05-2017, 11:28 PM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(16-05-2017 08:30 AM)Alla Wrote:  
DLJ Wrote:I'm curious as to what news outlets you consider to be Liberal.
Those who collude with Democrats. Those who gave answers to Hillary Clinton before the debates. Who knows, what else they do?
Those who promote liberal agenda. They are those who hate Tea Party people. They hate me. I am Tea party member. They called me "domestic terrorist" while we never did what some on the left do - trashing and smashing things that don't belong to them.
Liberal media never calls them terrorists. Liberal media justifies them. This is why liberal media lost my trust.

DLJ Wrote:If you mean something like CNN (Clinton News Network), they are the ones who helped to create Trump.
Yes, they did. But why? because they thought it will be easy to bit beat the clown. The evil guy who hates Mexicans and Muslims.
They were WRONG.
MSNBC is NOT conservative network. They hate Trump. They hate conservatives.

Thanks for the reply.

I think I can see where you're going wrong. It's a definitional thing.

Big Grin

(16-05-2017 09:43 PM)Alla Wrote:  ...
I choose not to believe those who hate Trump. Haters can not be trusted by me.
...

Nobody hates Trump.

That would be like hating Elmer Fudd.

Nobody hates a cartoon loser.

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(16-05-2017 09:43 PM)Alla Wrote:  ...
Dems do all they can to stop Trump.
...

Sorry. No more excuses. The Republicans have complete control. The opposition can only bitch and moan but have no power.

Wake up.

Rolleyes

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17-05-2017, 05:21 AM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
My brother filled me in yesterday. He turned the news back on after a friend told him about the Comey firing. He was actually relieved that it was not something much worse. We both agreed that impeachment would be a logical move, but what this episode really shows is the advantage of the parliamentary system of government. A simple no confidence vote would do it, and would be much easier for the Republican members of Parliament.

I have no doubt thousands of papers have been written about the pros and cons of both systems. However, the parliamentary system wins big time here.

I watch little TV, but I mentioned that we could just as well have one of the Kardashians, or Snookie, in the White House. We had a good laugh at that one.

My brother then mentioned that North Korea was going to surrender. Too damn funny. The leader of the free world was more unpredictable than their leader. I added the Iranians waving white flags because they thought half their population was going to be wiped out at any moment.

You had to be on the phone with us, but we just cracked up. One of those funny / sad things which come along in life. He will keep me posted.
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17-05-2017, 06:25 AM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2017 06:34 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(17-05-2017 05:21 AM)Walter Wrote:  My brother filled me in yesterday. He turned the news back on after a friend told him about the Comey firing. He was actually relieved that it was not something much worse. We both agreed that impeachment would be a logical move, but what this episode really shows is the advantage of the parliamentary system of government. A simple no confidence vote would do it, and would be much easier for the Republican members of Parliament.

I have no doubt thousands of papers have been written about the pros and cons of both systems. However, the parliamentary system wins big time here.
I dont know much about other parliamentary systems, but in Germany this wouldnt work against someone like Trump either.

The purpose of this vote of confidence is to bring back in line the parliament from the chancellors point of view in times of confusion and tight majorities. The chancellor asks for a vote of the parliament giving him confidence (in general, mostly triggered by certian topic in question however). In case of a miniroty vote for him he usually announces in advance that he is going to step back. If he has only a minority, new elections would be scheduled.

The problem is: The chancellor has to ask for the vote. Someone like Trump wouldnt ask the parliament for a vote, since he is confident in himself. Just look at the ACA/Obamacare vote. It took him two tries from a parliament heavily in favour of his own party, and in the second try he only succeeded by a very small margin with lots of members of his own party voting against his proposition. Every non-insane chancellor/president wouldt have called a vote of confidence. Trump would (and has) brag about his success and just go on.

Edit:

I have to correct myself, there is also an option to trigger this by the parliament (so these are two different tool in the parliamentary toolbox). In Germany one requirement is that a new chancellor is proposed. It is not possible to trigger a vote without a possible successor, so to speak.

It was tried twice. Failed spectracularly once (1966), and succeeded by a small margin once. In the latter case Kohl succeeded Schmidt in 1982 and was able to shape the events of 1989-1990.

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17-05-2017, 07:48 AM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(17-05-2017 05:21 AM)Walter Wrote:  My brother filled me in yesterday. He turned the news back on after a friend told him about the Comey firing. He was actually relieved that it was not something much worse. We both agreed that impeachment would be a logical move, but what this episode really shows is the advantage of the parliamentary system of government. A simple no confidence vote would do it, and would be much easier for the Republican members of Parliament.

I have no doubt thousands of papers have been written about the pros and cons of both systems. However, the parliamentary system wins big time here.

I watch little TV, but I mentioned that we could just as well have one of the Kardashians, or Snookie, in the White House. We had a good laugh at that one.

My brother then mentioned that North Korea was going to surrender. Too damn funny. The leader of the free world was more unpredictable than their leader. I added the Iranians waving white flags because they thought half their population was going to be wiped out at any moment.

You had to be on the phone with us, but we just cracked up. One of those funny / sad things which come along in life. He will keep me posted.

I agree that in most of their current configurations, parliamentary systems offer an easier way out. The trade-off being stability. That is why it's not unheard of for a country like Japan to have several administrations spanning a very short period. But you never see them having to endure a George W Bush or a Trump with no ready exit in sight.

It seems like you have the option of buying stability with the risk of a monster like Trump holding the country hostage. I wish we had a recall clause for the President. Even if the threshold is set high, my hunch is someone like Trump would be recalled.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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17-05-2017, 08:06 AM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
Stevil Wrote:It is a fact that Trump lied about inauguration numbers.
It is a fact that Trump lied about the degree of his electoral win.
Ok. Is this why I have to stop to support Trump?
It is not like Obama's lie of the year "if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor"
If Trump said this kind of lie I would definitely stopped to support him.

Stevil Wrote:It is a fact that Trump made up the allegations about the wiretapping.
Is this why I have to stop to support Trump? I KNOW this FACT: Obama was wiretapping Germany Prime Minister and James Rosen. Who else did he secretly wiretapped? May be we will never know. Or may be we will one day.

Stevil Wrote:It is a fact that Trump gave Russia code word classified secret information.
If he did doesn't the president have an authority to de-classify classified information? Don't countries share some information when they fight together against common enemy like ISIS?

Stevil Wrote:It is a fact that Flynn had been communicating with the Russians during the campaign and had lied to deny it.
It is a fact that Sessions had been communicating with the Russians and had initially denied this.
I am Trump supporter not Flynn's or Session's.

Stevil Wrote:It is a fact that Trump had the Russian collusion investigation on mind when he decided to fire Comey.
?
I wouldn't trust Comey with any investigation after what he did with Hillary's investigation. Comey can not be trusted any more. He lost his credibility.

Stevil Wrote:It is a fact that Trump and his officials were warned about Flynn and the Russian situation and sat on it for several weeks.
So? Obama was warned by Romney about Putin, but no, Obama gave Putin flexibility. About year later Putin invaded my beautiful Ukraine. I wonder what kind of secret deals Obama had with Putin and Russians? Russians were hacking us for years and what did Obama do? Nothing. May be Obama is Putin's puppet? Hmm....
Oh no, I should NOT make all these conspiracy theories or I will become like Democrats who make all these crazy theories about Trump now.

Stevil Wrote:It is a fact that Trump's initial attempt at the travel ban was unconstitutional.
I don't believe so. President has an authority. But judges who are actually ACTIVISTS were wrong. This is why they are from the 9th CIRCUS.

Stevil Wrote:It is a fact that the FBI believe there is reason to investigate the claims of Russian collusion.
Claims, claims. The Bible also has many claims. Claims are not facts.

Stevil Wrote:It is a fact that the FBI have investigated the wiretapping claim and found no evidence or smoke in support of it.
May be, may be. Is this why I have to stop to support Trump?


Stevil Wrote:It seems highly likely that the Russians interfered with the USA presidential election.
It seems likely they do it every election. Dems never cared until Hillary lost.
Obama interfered with Israel election with tax payers money.

Stevil Wrote:It seems highly likely that Trump asked The FBI Director to proclaim loyalty to him.
It seems highly likely Eric Holder was very loyal to Obama. It seems highly likely that Loretta Lynch was colluding with Clintons. Dems still supported Obama.

Stevil Wrote:It seems highly likely that Trump asked the FBI Director to stop investigating Flynn.
According to allegations Trump said that he HOPES that Comey would stop it. To say "I HOPE" and to give an order to stop are "two big differences" as they say in Odessa.
BTW why didn't Comey report about this to AJ and leaked it only after he was fired? No, Comey can't be trusted even if his tongue was notarized.

Stevil Wrote:The Nunes affair with the secret meetings etc is highly suspicious.
The Sessions recommendation to fire Comey is highly suspicious.
The timing of the Comey firing is highly suspicious.
Why?

Obama's lie of the year: "if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor"
Obama's lie :" I learned that Clinton had secret server from the news"
Obama's lie: "Video is to be blamed for an attack and murder of 4 people"
Obama's lie: "ISIS is JV"
There are more lies of Obama but I can't remember all of them.

BTW: My kids are very happy that Trump will stop Michelle Obama's horrible lunches in schools. I bet her kids don't eat that kind of junk.

LET"S MAKE SCHOOL LUNCHES GREAT AGAIN!!!

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I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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17-05-2017, 08:12 AM
RE: Trump shared classified info to Russians
(17-05-2017 08:06 AM)Alla Wrote:  
Stevil Wrote:It is a fact that Trump lied about inauguration numbers.
It is a fact that Trump lied about the degree of his electoral win.
Ok. Is this why I have to stop to support Trump?
It is not like Obama's lie of the year "if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor"
If Trump said this kind of lie I would definitely stopped to support him.

Stevil Wrote:It is a fact that Trump made up the allegations about the wiretapping.
Is this why I have to stop to support Trump? I KNOW this FACT: Obama was wiretapping Germany Prime Minister and James Rosen. Who else did he secretly wiretapped? May be we will never know. Or may be we will one day.

Stevil Wrote:It is a fact that Trump gave Russia code word classified secret information.
If he did doesn't the president have an authority to de-classify classified information? Don't countries share some information when they fight together against common enemy like ISIS?

Stevil Wrote:It is a fact that Flynn had been communicating with the Russians during the campaign and had lied to deny it.
It is a fact that Sessions had been communicating with the Russians and had initially denied this.
I am Trump supporter not Flynn's or Session's.

Stevil Wrote:It is a fact that Trump had the Russian collusion investigation on mind when he decided to fire Comey.
?
I wouldn't trust Comey with any investigation after what he did with Hillary's investigation. Comey can not be trusted any more. He lost his credibility.

Stevil Wrote:It is a fact that Trump and his officials were warned about Flynn and the Russian situation and sat on it for several weeks.
So? Obama was warned by Romney about Putin, but no, Obama gave Putin flexibility. About year later Putin invaded my beautiful Ukraine. I wonder what kind of secret deals Obama had with Putin and Russians? Russians were hacking us for years and what did Obama do? Nothing. May be Obama is Putin's puppet? Hmm....
Oh no, I should NOT make all these conspiracy theories or I will become like Democrats who make all these crazy theories about Trump now.

Stevil Wrote:It is a fact that Trump's initial attempt at the travel ban was unconstitutional.
I don't believe so. President has an authority. But judges who are actually ACTIVISTS were wrong. This is why they are from the 9th CIRCUS.

Stevil Wrote:It is a fact that the FBI believe there is reason to investigate the claims of Russian collusion.
Claims, claims. The Bible also has many claims. Claims are not facts.

Stevil Wrote:It is a fact that the FBI have investigated the wiretapping claim and found no evidence or smoke in support of it.
May be, may be. Is this why I have to stop to support Trump?


Stevil Wrote:It seems highly likely that the Russians interfered with the USA presidential election.
It seems likely they do it every election. Dems never cared until Hillary lost.
Obama interfered with Israel election with tax payers money.

Stevil Wrote:It seems highly likely that Trump asked The FBI Director to proclaim loyalty to him.
It seems highly likely Eric Holder was very loyal to Obama. It seems highly likely that Loretta Lynch was colluding with Clintons. Dems still supported Obama.

Stevil Wrote:It seems highly likely that Trump asked the FBI Director to stop investigating Flynn.
According to allegations Trump said that he HOPES that Comey would stop it. To say "I HOPE" and to give an order to stop are "two big differences" as they say in Odessa.
BTW why didn't Comey report about this to AJ and leaked it only after he was fired? No, Comey can't be trusted even if his tongue was notarized.

Stevil Wrote:The Nunes affair with the secret meetings etc is highly suspicious.
The Sessions recommendation to fire Comey is highly suspicious.
The timing of the Comey firing is highly suspicious.
Why?

Obama's lie of the year: "if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor"
Obama's lie :" I learned that Clinton had secret server from the news"
Obama's lie: "Video is to be blamed for an attack and murder of 4 people"
Obama's lie: "ISIS is JV"
There are more lies of Obama but I can't remember all of them.

BTW: My kids are very happy that Trump will stop Michelle Obama's horrible lunches in schools. I bet her kids don't eat that kind of junk.

LET"S MAKE SCHOOL LUNCHES GREAT AGAIN!!!

OK, if I am understanding you correctly, you're saying that you are forgiving Trump his errors and lies because other people were forgiving of Obama's errors and lies.

Or is it that person A is good because person B was bad?

As logic and reasoning goes, this is not impressive.

Dodgy

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