Trump staff accused of manhandling reporter
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30-03-2016, 08:48 AM
RE: Trump staff accused of manhandling reporter
(30-03-2016 08:04 AM)DerFish Wrote:  Are you old enuff to remember the Clarence Thomas hearing for the Supreme court? Some lady was accusing him of inappropriate actions, such as whipping out his dick in front of her, his secretary, and asking her if she wanted some. My wife at the time said that if that as the worst the woman had ever experienced she should consider herself lucky.
Yes I am. I remember it quite well.

I find your wife(a.t.t.)'s reply insensitive at the time and irrelevant now. Irrelevant then too actually, but that's a discussion for another time.

No one in this thread is calling for Lewandoski's head on a platter, immediate castration or any other extreme measures.

If the law judges this to be a simple assault and he is found guilty, then let him pay the fine and move on.

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Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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30-03-2016, 08:52 AM
RE: Trump staff accused of manhandling reporter
(30-03-2016 08:40 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  That can't be called a definition - It doesn't make anything definitive lol. It basically just outlines that the onus is completely on the judges perception.

Actually, that is indeed the legal definition. You can like it or not, as you wish.

As for the "onus being on the judges perception" -- duh. Every judgement relies upon the judge's (or jury's) perception. Banal observation does not an objection make.
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30-03-2016, 09:05 AM
RE: Trump staff accused of manhandling reporter
(30-03-2016 08:19 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  There is nothing to gain from constructing a point-form hypothetical thought expirment.
Apart from provoking thought, perhaps from a point-of-view not previously considered.

(30-03-2016 08:19 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  The actual scenario can be summed up easily:
I think we've established that, but...

(30-03-2016 08:19 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Secret service warn reporter to knock it off
Reporter doesn't knock it off
Fairly standard procedure so far. However if the SS have a problem with someone's behavior then it is their responsibility to deal with it.

(30-03-2016 08:19 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Reporter gets lightly touched on arm
Footage shows him holding onto her arm for several seconds.

(30-03-2016 08:19 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Reporter says dude tried to forcibly throw her to ground
This does seem to be exaggerated. I could see him squeezing hard enough to bruise, but it does not seem like he was trying to put her on the ground.

(30-03-2016 08:19 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Reporter charges dude
That is 100% false. He pulls her back and she stands there next to the guy in the checkered shirt.

(30-03-2016 08:19 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Dude denies touching her
Footage arises depicting her being lightly touched on arm
Dude lies and footage reveals his lie.

(30-03-2016 08:19 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  They both lied. And at the end of the day a 'battery' didn't take place lol.
And the police determined otherwise. Final determination lies with the courts.

(30-03-2016 08:19 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Although she will probably need to hide away in 'safe spaces' for the rest of her life to cope with the PTSD she got from this, the damsel =[
I don't understand the misogyny. If she were a male, my position would be the same. The only changes in my posts would be pronouns. Why do you keep hammering on gender?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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30-03-2016, 09:05 AM
RE: Trump staff accused of manhandling reporter
(30-03-2016 08:52 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 08:40 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  That can't be called a definition - It doesn't make anything definitive lol. It basically just outlines that the onus is completely on the judges perception.

Actually, that is indeed the legal definition. You can like it or not, as you wish.

As for the "onus being on the judges perception" -- duh. Every judgement relies upon the judge's (or jury's) perception. Banal observation does not an objection make.

I believe you. I'm not contensting the legislation of it all.

The judge has perameters with which to make judgements in - and I'm saying is the simple assault crime doesn't really have any. It basically says that the judge gets to decide whether the instance was violent, or not - and whether the defendant intended it to be so, or not.
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30-03-2016, 09:09 AM
RE: Trump staff accused of manhandling reporter
(30-03-2016 09:05 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 08:19 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  There is nothing to gain from constructing a point-form hypothetical thought expirment.
Apart from provoking thought, perhaps from a point-of-view not previously considered.

(30-03-2016 08:19 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  The actual scenario can be summed up easily:
I think we've established that, but...

(30-03-2016 08:19 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Secret service warn reporter to knock it off
Reporter doesn't knock it off
Fairly standard procedure so far. However if the SS have a problem with someone's behavior then it is their responsibility to deal with it.

(30-03-2016 08:19 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Reporter gets lightly touched on arm
Footage shows him holding onto her arm for several seconds.

(30-03-2016 08:19 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Reporter says dude tried to forcibly throw her to ground
This does seem to be exaggerated. I could see him squeezing hard enough to bruise, but it does not seem like he was trying to put her on the ground.

(30-03-2016 08:19 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Reporter charges dude
That is 100% false. He pulls her back and she stands there next to the guy in the checkered shirt.

(30-03-2016 08:19 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Dude denies touching her
Footage arises depicting her being lightly touched on arm
Dude lies and footage reveals his lie.

(30-03-2016 08:19 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  They both lied. And at the end of the day a 'battery' didn't take place lol.
And the police determined otherwise. Final determination lies with the courts.

(30-03-2016 08:19 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Although she will probably need to hide away in 'safe spaces' for the rest of her life to cope with the PTSD she got from this, the damsel =[
I don't understand the misogyny. If she were a male, my position would be the same. The only changes in my posts would be pronouns. Why do you keep hammering on gender?

Note: when I said 'charges' I meant charging with crime.

I don't know what you're on about with misogyny. Like you say, if she were a male my position would be the same.
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30-03-2016, 09:13 AM
RE: Trump staff accused of manhandling reporter
(30-03-2016 07:30 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 06:53 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Two children that apparently don't play well with others............ (and I'm betting her editorial slant tends to the left)

Criminal???

Pfffttttt....

Get over it already.

You're moving through a bar.
You grab a waitress by the arm as you pass by.
She goes to the police and says that you assaulted her.
She shows them the bruises.
You say you never touched her.
She shows them the video of you grabbing her.

What would happen to you or anyone else that was NOT a politician?

How would you feel if it was your wife/sister/mother with the bruises?
I gave my one of my ex's a series of welts and bruises one day.....

But she deserved it.....and I enjoyed it.

You run around on the paintball field trying to be Rambo (like she did) - and some sneaky bastard like me is going to shoot you from cover..... Repeatedly....


Big Grin

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30-03-2016, 09:25 AM
RE: Trump staff accused of manhandling reporter
(30-03-2016 09:09 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Note: when I said 'charges' I meant charging with crime.
Ah. I apologize. My bad.


(30-03-2016 09:09 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  I don't know what you're on about with misogyny.

Really?
Quote:She is a lying cunt.
Quote:Although she will probably need to hide away in 'safe spaces' for the rest of her life to cope with the PTSD she got from this, the damsel =[

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30-03-2016, 10:50 AM
RE: Trump staff accused of manhandling reporter
This is the thing: This was NOT a normal circumstance.

If someone were to grab me hard enough to cause a bruise, without provocation, I would want to push them back. No one has the right to just give me bruises.

But at the rally, I could not push them back because that would result in my being manhandled even more. I am powerless at that rally.

So, if I go to a rally I should expect for it to be ok that people grab me and bruise me?

NOT.

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30-03-2016, 10:53 AM (This post was last modified: 30-03-2016 10:57 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Trump staff accused of manhandling reporter
(30-03-2016 09:05 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  I believe you. I'm not contensting the legislation of it all.

The judge has perameters with which to make judgements in - and I'm saying is the simple assault crime doesn't really have any. It basically says that the judge gets to decide whether the instance was violent, or not - and whether the defendant intended it to be so, or not.

You're misreading the law, then. Here is where it explicitly defines the act of simple assault:

Quote:(1)An “assault” is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.

The fact that a judgement must be rendered doesn't negate the fact that the definition is laid down; it only means that a person or persons must look at the ations prompting the charge and ascertain whether the actions fit the charge. That does not mean the legal definition is not given. It means that the action itself must be judged.

Now, if you want to continue billclintoning the matter, go right ahead, but the English therein is plain and concise.

The guy's actions seem, at this distance, to meet the criteria for simple assault, but I could be wrong -- it seems his act might defensible against that charge based on circumstances not permitting the threatened action. Waiting for a judge or jury who hears the evidence is preferable to going off half-cocked, to my mind, and therefore that's what I will do here.
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30-03-2016, 01:22 PM (This post was last modified: 30-03-2016 01:26 PM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: Trump staff accused of manhandling reporter
I was just watching the video and it appears he grabbed her upper arm. However the photo she tweeted of the bruises are on her forearm. Trump also tweeted pictures that showed himself pulling his arm away from her after she grabbed him with a pen in her hand.

And then there's this: “..speaking on condition of anonymity, a member of Trump’s Secret Service detail told DailyMail.com on Tuesday that Fields touched Trump twice – and was warned by agents to stop – before Lewandowski pulled her away.”

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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