Trump vs. Clinton vs Everyone else
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07-03-2016, 07:24 AM
RE: Trump vs. Clinton vs Everyone else
(02-03-2016 05:58 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Voting based on party lines alone is a bad idea. Just 4 years back my favorite candidate, Ron Paul, ran as a Republican. He was far more socially liberal than the incumbent Democrat (and most other Dems and GOP members), and had the voting record to prove it. Now, you may have disagreed with him on other issues, like foreign policy, economic policy, etc., but if you vote assuming you know someones positions based on their party you will sometimes be wrong.

Without any additional context, I agree with this statement; however, given this election, I feel I have a good reason. While Clinton is not an candidate I can or will get excited about, I feel she would be worlds better than any of the four GOP candidates.


(02-03-2016 05:58 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Most people, when they talk about social liberties do no actually want widespread liberty across the board. Both Democrats and Republicans want to limit your personal freedoms, they just disagree on what personal liberties you should and should not have. The guy or gal that wants to limit your ability to possess a firearm is more likely support freedom of marrying whoever you wish (as far as sex goes), and vice versa. The guy or gal that wants to keep abortion legal is more likely to want to restrict your choice in automobile safety (such as helmets for motorcyclists, and seat belts for passenger vehicles), and vice versa. Then there are issues where the far right and far left agree, but the moderates agree, such as drug laws.

This highlights the idea that freedom is basically a buzzword, but one that most people seem to like. Every freedom to is opposed by a freedom from. It's just that a lot of these "opposing freedoms" seem stupid to us, now days. Take a person's freedom from slavery: that is opposed by a person's freedom to own slaves. Now, we might say that is a stupid freedom and "doesn't count", but we totally had a civil war over that 150 years ago. Now, the freedom to vs freedom from arguments are over things like discrimination vs religious freedoms. Each side feels the other one is backing a stupid freedom that shouldn't count.
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08-03-2016, 04:34 PM
RE: Trump vs. Clinton vs Everyone else
(07-03-2016 07:24 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(02-03-2016 05:58 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Voting based on party lines alone is a bad idea. Just 4 years back my favorite candidate, Ron Paul, ran as a Republican. He was far more socially liberal than the incumbent Democrat (and most other Dems and GOP members), and had the voting record to prove it. Now, you may have disagreed with him on other issues, like foreign policy, economic policy, etc., but if you vote assuming you know someones positions based on their party you will sometimes be wrong.

Without any additional context, I agree with this statement; however, given this election, I feel I have a good reason. While Clinton is not an candidate I can or will get excited about, I feel she would be worlds better than any of the four GOP candidates.


(02-03-2016 05:58 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Most people, when they talk about social liberties do no actually want widespread liberty across the board. Both Democrats and Republicans want to limit your personal freedoms, they just disagree on what personal liberties you should and should not have. The guy or gal that wants to limit your ability to possess a firearm is more likely support freedom of marrying whoever you wish (as far as sex goes), and vice versa. The guy or gal that wants to keep abortion legal is more likely to want to restrict your choice in automobile safety (such as helmets for motorcyclists, and seat belts for passenger vehicles), and vice versa. Then there are issues where the far right and far left agree, but the moderates agree, such as drug laws.

This highlights the idea that freedom is basically a buzzword, but one that most people seem to like. Every freedom to is opposed by a freedom from. It's just that a lot of these "opposing freedoms" seem stupid to us, now days. Take a person's freedom from slavery: that is opposed by a person's freedom to own slaves. Now, we might say that is a stupid freedom and "doesn't count", but we totally had a civil war over that 150 years ago. Now, the freedom to vs freedom from arguments are over things like discrimination vs religious freedoms. Each side feels the other one is backing a stupid freedom that shouldn't count.

You can use the word "Freedom" dishonestly, but correctly, in the context of politics, in my opinion. I would say freedom should be defined as the ability and right to do whatever the fuck you want so long as it does not impede on others rights and abilities to do the same. That does not make everything black and white by any means, but I think it helps. This doesn't invalidate your listed examples, but I think it highlights them nicely.

For shits and gigs, I give you my candidate, just because I thought it was funny:




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09-03-2016, 07:58 AM
RE: Trump vs. Clinton vs Everyone else
(08-03-2016 04:34 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  You can use the word "Freedom" dishonestly, but correctly, in the context of politics, in my opinion. I would say freedom should be defined as the ability and right to do whatever the fuck you want so long as it does not impede on others rights and abilities to do the same. That does not make everything black and white by any means, but I think it helps. This doesn't invalidate your listed examples, but I think it highlights them nicely.

Yeah, and now days, that type of sell on slavery would be impossible.

Still, it does work really well for rallying both sides of several current issues. Gun rights, abortion, gay marriage, and various environmental regulations have all been framed as freedom issues on both sides. I think a strong sense of libertarianism is ingrained in US politics and it makes for a strong narrative for most people.
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09-03-2016, 12:39 PM
RE: Trump vs. Clinton vs Everyone else
(09-03-2016 07:58 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 04:34 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  You can use the word "Freedom" dishonestly, but correctly, in the context of politics, in my opinion. I would say freedom should be defined as the ability and right to do whatever the fuck you want so long as it does not impede on others rights and abilities to do the same. That does not make everything black and white by any means, but I think it helps. This doesn't invalidate your listed examples, but I think it highlights them nicely.

Yeah, and now days, that type of sell on slavery would be impossible.

Not according to the annual Trafficking in People I have to take as part of the annual Sexual Harassment/Assault Response and Prevention training.

#sigh
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09-03-2016, 12:43 PM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2016 12:46 PM by adey67.)
RE: Trump vs. Clinton vs Everyone else
Sexual harassment panda yeah!!!!! (south park)
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09-03-2016, 07:04 PM
RE: Trump vs. Clinton vs Everyone else
(09-03-2016 12:39 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(09-03-2016 07:58 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Yeah, and now days, that type of sell on slavery would be impossible.

Not according to the annual Trafficking in People I have to take as part of the annual Sexual Harassment/Assault Response and Prevention training.

That's how the government solves their problems these days. Having everyone set through the exact same training every year to tell you shit like "Don't rape", and "Don't transport sex slaves". Time wasters. I want to meet the guy that took that training and had an epiphany.

"Oh! don't smuggle poor asian women across international borders in cargo containers and force them to take it up the ass for profit. I wish someone would've told me sooner." Rolleyes

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