Trump will be president
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12-10-2016, 10:34 AM
RE: Trump will be president
Gloucester Wrote:
Quote:Was this open gifting or a plain brown envelope job?

Vosur Wrote:
Quote:I don't know what that question means.

Were these openly given fees or passed under the table, backhanders or whatever the American expression for illicit or covert payments is.

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12-10-2016, 10:42 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 09:43 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 09:27 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Have other presidents done the same, and for free?
What? Hillary is not and has never been President of the United States. And no, Bill Clinton is the only US president in history who has received 132 million dollars for giving speeches to special interests. The others have not even received half or even a quarter of that. It should be mentioned that the Clintons have made over 25 million dollars in speaking fees since 2014. You figure she was already planning to run for President in 2016 back then? This kind of obvious corruption would be an outrage and an instant disqualification in any other civilized country, but then, US exceptionalism is a very real thing.

(12-10-2016 09:27 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Boosting your favourite politician by paying him or her over the odds for a talk is not unusual. Over here though it has to be declared and approved by a parliamentary authority.
What kind of a response is that? Are you trying to say that it's acceptable to bribe politicians simply because it's commonplace?

(12-10-2016 09:27 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Was this open gifting or a plain brown envelope job?
I don't know what that question means.

I can see where it might be a conflict of interest for Hillary Clinton to accept money for speaking while she is still in office (senator, secretary of state, etc.), although I don't know that she is legally prohibited from dong so, but what would be the problem with Bill? Once he's out of office, he ought to be able to speak to whoever for whatever they want to pay him. I don't see how you could fault him for that. He wasn't doing it while he was still President, was he?
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12-10-2016, 10:43 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 10:34 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Were these openly given fees or passed under the table, backhanders or whatever the American expression for illicit or covert payments is.
I'm still not sure what the practical difference between an "openly given fee" and a "covert payment" is. It was mandatory for them to release the details of the money they received when she decided to run for president, that much I can say.

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12-10-2016, 10:46 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 10:42 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 09:43 AM)Vosur Wrote:  What? Hillary is not and has never been President of the United States. And no, Bill Clinton is the only US president in history who has received 132 million dollars for giving speeches to special interests. The others have not even received half or even a quarter of that. It should be mentioned that the Clintons have made over 25 million dollars in speaking fees since 2014. You figure she was already planning to run for President in 2016 back then? This kind of obvious corruption would be an outrage and an instant disqualification in any other civilized country, but then, US exceptionalism is a very real thing.

What kind of a response is that? Are you trying to say that it's acceptable to bribe politicians simply because it's commonplace?

I don't know what that question means.

I can see where it might be a conflict of interest for Hillary Clinton to accept money for speaking while she is still in office (senator, secretary of state, etc.), although I don't know that she is legally prohibited from dong so, but what would be the problem with Bill? Once he's out of office, he ought to be able to speak to whoever for whatever they want to pay him. I don't see how you could fault him for that. He wasn't doing it while he was still President, was he?

As far as I can glean he's got an issue with the dollar amount -- who cares? He's one of four still living former presidents.

In January unless something happens to the older bush...there will be 5 former presidents and Bill might be first gentleman.

Ok, I do giggle at that.....


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12-10-2016, 10:46 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 10:42 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I can see where it might be a conflict of interest for Hillary Clinton to accept money for speaking while she is still in office (senator, secretary of state, etc.), although I don't know that she is legally prohibited from dong so, but what would be the problem with Bill? Once he's out of office, he ought to be able to speak to whoever for whatever they want to pay him. I don't see how you could fault him for that. He wasn't doing it while he was still President, was he?
Are you suggesting that the Clintons keep their finances completely separate? Married couples usually share their money, so giving money to Bill is effectively the same as giving it to Hillary and vice versa.

(12-10-2016 10:46 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 10:42 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I can see where it might be a conflict of interest for Hillary Clinton to accept money for speaking while she is still in office (senator, secretary of state, etc.), although I don't know that she is legally prohibited from dong so, but what would be the problem with Bill? Once he's out of office, he ought to be able to speak to whoever for whatever they want to pay him. I don't see how you could fault him for that. He wasn't doing it while he was still President, was he?

As far as I can glean he's got an issue with the dollar amount -- who cares? He's one of four still living former presidents.

In January unless something happens to the older bush...there will be 5 former presidents and Bill might be first gentleman.

Ok, I do giggle at that.....
My remarks weren't limited to living presidents. I said that Bill Clinton is the only US president in history to do what he did.

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12-10-2016, 10:48 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 09:43 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 09:27 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Have other presidents done the same, and for free?
What? Hillary is not and has never been President of the United States. And no, Bill Clinton is the only US president in history who has received 132 million dollars for giving speeches to special interests. The others have not even received half or even a quarter of that. It should be mentioned that the Clintons have made over 25 million dollars in speaking fees since 2014. You figure she was already planning to run for President in 2016 back then? This kind of obvious corruption would be an outrage and an instant disqualification in any other civilized country, but then, US exceptionalism is a very real thing.

(12-10-2016 09:27 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Boosting your favourite politician by paying him or her over the odds for a talk is not unusual. Over here though it has to be declared and approved by a parliamentary authority.
What kind of a response is that? Are you trying to say that it's acceptable to bribe politicians simply because it's commonplace?

(12-10-2016 09:27 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Was this open gifting or a plain brown envelope job?
I don't know what that question means.

Tump is the highest paid speaker making from $1 million to $1.5 million per speech according to Forbes. And being that he has narcissistic alexithymia, is possibly the future fascist-dictator of the United States and lacks normal empathy and intelligence, he doesn't donate to charities either. What he does is donate free rounds of golf given by his golf courses as raffle tickets. He's donated 3000 rounds of golf to charity, most of which he gives to his celebrity friends. This isn't his money either. He hasn't donated any of his own money to charity in the last 5 years.


Bill Clinton has been making speeches in the speaking circuit for the last 16 years after he left the presidency. George Bush is catching up with him. George Sr and Jimmy Carter are too old to do the speaking circuit. The other presidents are not living. Every president and major public service employee goes on the speaking circuit after leaving their jobs, from Rudy Giuliani to US Senators.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/george-...id/649368/

Yes, the Clintons make a lot of money but have donated to charities and the Clinton Foundation. Rupert Murdoch backed a book written by Republican Peter Schweizer who tried to find slush funds and nefarious goings on with the Clinton Foundation and despite all the investigations have found nothing.

Trump is the saddest thing to happen to this country since the Civil War.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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12-10-2016, 10:57 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 10:48 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Tump is the highest paid speaker making from $1 million to $1.5 million per speech according to Forbes. And being that he has narcissistic alexithymia, is possibly the future fascist-dictator of the United States and lacks normal empathy and intelligence, he doesn't donate to charities either. What he does is donate free rounds of golf given by his golf courses as raffle tickets. He's donated 3000 rounds of golf to charity, most of which he gives to his celebrity friends. This isn't his money either. He hasn't donated any of his own money to charity in the last 5 years.
Trump has never held public office, so there's that.

(12-10-2016 10:48 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Bill Clinton has been making speeches in the speaking circuit for the last 16 years after he left the presidency. George Bush is catching up with him. George Sr and Jimmy Carter are too old to do the speaking circuit. The other presidents are not living. Every president and major public service employee goes on the speaking circuit after leaving their jobs, from Rudy Giuliani to US Senators.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/george-...id/649368/

Yes, the Clintons make a lot of money but have donated to charities and the Clinton Foundation. Rupert Murdoch backed a book written by Republican Peter Schweizer who tried to find slush funds and nefarious goings on with the Clinton Foundation and despite all the investigations have found nothing.

Trump is the saddest thing to happen to this country since the Civil War.
George Bush's wife has never held public office other than being First Lady and she also isn't running for president, so there's that. The money he receives cannot buy political influence because he doesn't have and will never have any power again.

However, let's assume, for the sake of the argument, that we live in an alternative universe where Trump was a senator and Laura Bush was running for president. Guess what, it would still be corrupt to take millions of dollars from special interests when you're supposed to represent the people who elected you. The Clintons' corruption is not diminished by the corruption of other public officials in any way. It's still unacceptable and disgusting no matter how many senators and congressman are crooked.

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12-10-2016, 11:00 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 10:48 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 09:43 AM)Vosur Wrote:  What? Hillary is not and has never been President of the United States. And no, Bill Clinton is the only US president in history who has received 132 million dollars for giving speeches to special interests. The others have not even received half or even a quarter of that. It should be mentioned that the Clintons have made over 25 million dollars in speaking fees since 2014. You figure she was already planning to run for President in 2016 back then? This kind of obvious corruption would be an outrage and an instant disqualification in any other civilized country, but then, US exceptionalism is a very real thing.

What kind of a response is that? Are you trying to say that it's acceptable to bribe politicians simply because it's commonplace?

I don't know what that question means.

Tump is the highest paid speaker making from $1 million to $1.5 million per speech according to Forbes. And being that he has narcissistic alexithymia, is possibly the future fascist-dictator of the United States and lacks normal empathy and intelligence, he doesn't donate to charities either. What he does is donate free rounds of golf given by his golf courses as raffle tickets. He's donated 3000 rounds of golf to charity, most of which he gives to his celebrity friends. This isn't his money either. He hasn't donated any of his own money to charity in the last 5 years.


Bill Clinton has been making speeches in the speaking circuit for the last 16 years after he left the presidency. George Bush is catching up with him. George Sr and Jimmy Carter are too old to do the speaking circuit. The other presidents are not living. Every president and major public service employee goes on the speaking circuit after leaving their jobs, from Rudy Giuliani to US Senators.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/george-...id/649368/

Yes, the Clintons make a lot of money but have donated to charities and the Clinton Foundation. Rupert Murdoch backed a book written by Republican Peter Schweizer who tried to find slush funds and nefarious goings on with the Clinton Foundation and despite all the investigations have found nothing.

Trump is the saddest thing to happen to this country since the Civil War.

Bolding mine. I saw "Mango Mussolini" in reference to Trump, recently. Smile
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12-10-2016, 11:01 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 10:46 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 10:42 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I can see where it might be a conflict of interest for Hillary Clinton to accept money for speaking while she is still in office (senator, secretary of state, etc.), although I don't know that she is legally prohibited from dong so, but what would be the problem with Bill? Once he's out of office, he ought to be able to speak to whoever for whatever they want to pay him. I don't see how you could fault him for that. He wasn't doing it while he was still President, was he?
Are you suggesting that the Clintons keep their finances completely separate? Married couples usually share their money, so giving money to Bill is effectively the same as giving it to Hillary and vice versa.

I don't know that you can legally stop Bill Clinton from making money (by any legal means, including giving speeches) just because his wife is politically active. Should any and all spouses of people in government offices be forbidden to do this? It seems unrealistic to me, and I can't say I have a problem with it.

All recent US presidents have been filthy rich (at least by my standards) even before they took office. It's nearly impossible to run for president unless you're rich. So that in itself is not a reason to hate them. The Clintons have plenty of other unpleasant baggage (and I will vote for her anyway, for reasons that I have detailed several times on this forum). I don't really care how rich they are.
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12-10-2016, 11:02 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 10:46 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 10:42 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I can see where it might be a conflict of interest for Hillary Clinton to accept money for speaking while she is still in office (senator, secretary of state, etc.), although I don't know that she is legally prohibited from dong so, but what would be the problem with Bill? Once he's out of office, he ought to be able to speak to whoever for whatever they want to pay him. I don't see how you could fault him for that. He wasn't doing it while he was still President, was he?
Are you suggesting that the Clintons keep their finances completely separate? Married couples usually share their money, so giving money to Bill is effectively the same as giving it to Hillary and vice versa.

(12-10-2016 10:46 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  As far as I can glean he's got an issue with the dollar amount -- who cares? He's one of four still living former presidents.

In January unless something happens to the older bush...there will be 5 former presidents and Bill might be first gentleman.

Ok, I do giggle at that.....
My remarks weren't limited to living presidents. I said that Bill Clinton is the only US president in history to do what he did.

You don't see the problem do you? Let's go back further...

FDR died in office, so after being president he didn't make any money giving speeches or writing books.

Eisenhower died in 1969 -- he left office in 1961.

Kennedy died in office

LBJ served out Kennedy's term and won one term on his own. He chose not run for a second term...and he died in 73.

Nixon....well...he was Nixon...

Ford...well...

Carter is still alive and raising millions for habitat..

Do you not understand context Vos?

You can't make a comparison to what LBJ might have gotten for a speech in 1970, to what Bill Clinton can make today.

Also, "First Ladies" financial earnings aren't usually an issue. I don't recall anyone making a fuss about what Laura Bush or Michelle Obama made.

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