Trump will be president
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12-10-2016, 11:06 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 10:57 AM)Vosur Wrote:  George Bush's wife has never held public office other than being First Lady and she also isn't running for president, so there's that. The money he receives cannot buy political influence because he doesn't have and will never have any power again.

Bullshit, he makes contributions to businesses and politicians he favors. His money can certainly buy influence for others.

Just like his father's money influenced him.


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12-10-2016, 11:10 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 10:57 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 10:48 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Tump is the highest paid speaker making from $1 million to $1.5 million per speech according to Forbes. And being that he has narcissistic alexithymia, is possibly the future fascist-dictator of the United States and lacks normal empathy and intelligence, he doesn't donate to charities either. What he does is donate free rounds of golf given by his golf courses as raffle tickets. He's donated 3000 rounds of golf to charity, most of which he gives to his celebrity friends. This isn't his money either. He hasn't donated any of his own money to charity in the last 5 years.
Trump has never held public office, so there's that.

(12-10-2016 10:48 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Bill Clinton has been making speeches in the speaking circuit for the last 16 years after he left the presidency. George Bush is catching up with him. George Sr and Jimmy Carter are too old to do the speaking circuit. The other presidents are not living. Every president and major public service employee goes on the speaking circuit after leaving their jobs, from Rudy Giuliani to US Senators.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/george-...id/649368/

Yes, the Clintons make a lot of money but have donated to charities and the Clinton Foundation. Rupert Murdoch backed a book written by Republican Peter Schweizer who tried to find slush funds and nefarious goings on with the Clinton Foundation and despite all the investigations have found nothing.

Trump is the saddest thing to happen to this country since the Civil War.
George Bush's wife has never held public office other than being First Lady and she also isn't running for president, so there's that. The money he receives cannot buy political influence because he doesn't have and will never have any power again.

However, let's assume, for the sake of the argument, that we live in an alternative universe where Trump was a senator and Laura Bush was running for president. Guess what, it would still be corrupt to take millions of dollars from special interests when you're supposed to represent the people who elected you. The Clintons' corruption is not diminished by the corruption of other public officials in any way. It's still unacceptable and disgusting no matter how many senators and congressman are crooked.

Vosur, you are a European and as such should be concerned as to who is more likely to cause worldwide incineration, only a fool would consider Clinton more capable of that than Trump and I know you are no fool what's going on here ?
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12-10-2016, 11:10 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 11:02 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Also, "First Ladies" financial earnings aren't usually an issue. I don't recall anyone making a fuss about what Laura Bush or Michelle Obama made.

Laugh out load

I would be surprised if Michelle Obama hasn't made some speeches (and been paid for them) during the last 8 years. Why is nobody complaining about that? If it's just the principle, it would be just as wrong for her as for Bill Clinton (actually more so, because her husband is president, not just a senator or secretary of state). If it's just because Bill Clinton gets more money, well, boo-hoo. Should we limit how much money he can make? That would be un-American.Big Grin

Seriously, I don't see this as a problem.
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12-10-2016, 11:11 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 10:46 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  ---
---
... Bill might be first gentleman.

Ok, I do giggle at that.....

I'm going with consort. "Madame President and consort." - it has a nice ring to it. Might help keep him in his place. Wink

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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12-10-2016, 11:12 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 11:10 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 10:57 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Trump has never held public office, so there's that.

George Bush's wife has never held public office other than being First Lady and she also isn't running for president, so there's that. The money he receives cannot buy political influence because he doesn't have and will never have any power again.

However, let's assume, for the sake of the argument, that we live in an alternative universe where Trump was a senator and Laura Bush was running for president. Guess what, it would still be corrupt to take millions of dollars from special interests when you're supposed to represent the people who elected you. The Clintons' corruption is not diminished by the corruption of other public officials in any way. It's still unacceptable and disgusting no matter how many senators and congressman are crooked.

Vosur, you are a European and as such should be concerned as to who is more likely to cause worldwide incineration, only a fool would consider Clinton more capable of that than Trump and I know you are no fool what's going on here ?

I'm pretty sure Vosur does not support Trump. He just hates Clinton. And, although she's less likely to start a nuclear war than Trump, she's plenty hawkish.
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12-10-2016, 11:12 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 11:10 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 11:02 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Also, "First Ladies" financial earnings aren't usually an issue. I don't recall anyone making a fuss about what Laura Bush or Michelle Obama made.

Laugh out load

I would be surprised if Michelle Obama hasn't made some speeches (and been paid for them) during the last 8 years. Why is nobody complaining about that? If it's just the principle, it would be just as wrong for her as for Bill Clinton (actually more so, because her husband is president, not just a senator or secretary of state). If it's just because Bill Clinton gets more money, well, boo-hoo. Should we limit how much money he can make? That would be un-American.Big Grin

Seriously, I don't see this as a problem.

It's a double standard.


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And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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12-10-2016, 11:13 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 11:01 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I don't know that you can legally stop Bill Clinton from making money (by any legal means, including giving speeches) just because his wife is politically active. Should any and all spouses of people in government offices be forbidden to do this? It seems unrealistic to me, and I can't say I have a problem with it.
I think they should be, but make no mistake, I'm aware that it's never going to happen. The very people who would vote on such legislation stand to gain the most from its rejection, after all.

(12-10-2016 11:01 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  All recent US presidents have been filthy rich (at least by my standards) even before they took office. It's nearly impossible to run for president unless you're rich. So that in itself is not a reason to hate them. The Clintons have plenty of other unpleasant baggage (and I will vote for her anyway, for reasons that I have detailed several times on this forum). I don't really care how rich they are.
And that is one of the big problems with American democracy. All of your recent presidents have furthered the agenda of special interests much more than the agenda of the people because it's almost an unwritten requirement to be a crook if you want to be president. Bernie Sanders would have been the exception, but look what happened to him. His own party conspired to sabotage his run for president in favor of Hillary Clinton from the very beginning.

(12-10-2016 11:02 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 10:46 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Are you suggesting that the Clintons keep their finances completely separate? Married couples usually share their money, so giving money to Bill is effectively the same as giving it to Hillary and vice versa.

My remarks weren't limited to living presidents. I said that Bill Clinton is the only US president in history to do what he did.

You don't see the problem do you? Let's go back further...

FDR died in office, so after being president he didn't make any money giving speeches or writing books.

Eisenhower died in 1969 -- he left office in 1961.

Kennedy died in office

LBJ served out Kennedy's term and won one term on his own. He chose not run for a second term...and he died in 73.

Nixon....well...he was Nixon...

Ford...well...

Carter is still alive and raising millions for habitat..

Do you not understand context Vos?

You can't make a comparison to what LBJ might have gotten for a speech in 1970, to what Bill Clinton can make today.

Also, "First Ladies" financial earnings aren't usually an issue. I don't recall anyone making a fuss about what Laura Bush or Michelle Obama made.

Laugh out load
Yeah, what about Nixon? What about Ford? What about Carter? The fact that Carter is raising millions for habitats doesn't prevent him from making millions off of speeches. You can't just hand wave them away by saying "well."

(12-10-2016 11:06 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Bullshit, he makes contributions to businesses and politicians he favors. His money can certainly buy influence for others.

Just like his father's money influenced him.
In the same vein, you can contribute to businesses and politicians you favor with your money. Again, even if I grant you that his behavior corrupt as well (which I don't really have a problem with), that doesn't make the corruption of other public officials (the Clintons, in this case) any more acceptable.

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12-10-2016, 11:14 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 11:00 AM)Fireball Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 10:48 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Tump is the highest paid speaker making from $1 million to $1.5 million per speech according to Forbes. And being that he has narcissistic alexithymia, is possibly the future fascist-dictator of the United States and lacks normal empathy and intelligence, he doesn't donate to charities either. What he does is donate free rounds of golf given by his golf courses as raffle tickets. He's donated 3000 rounds of golf to charity, most of which he gives to his celebrity friends. This isn't his money either. He hasn't donated any of his own money to charity in the last 5 years.


Bill Clinton has been making speeches in the speaking circuit for the last 16 years after he left the presidency. George Bush is catching up with him. George Sr and Jimmy Carter are too old to do the speaking circuit. The other presidents are not living. Every president and major public service employee goes on the speaking circuit after leaving their jobs, from Rudy Giuliani to US Senators.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/george-...id/649368/

Yes, the Clintons make a lot of money but have donated to charities and the Clinton Foundation. Rupert Murdoch backed a book written by Republican Peter Schweizer who tried to find slush funds and nefarious goings on with the Clinton Foundation and despite all the investigations have found nothing.

Trump is the saddest thing to happen to this country since the Civil War.

Bolding mine. I saw "Mango Mussolini" in reference to Trump, recently. Smile

Trump would fit in very well in a banana republic dictatorship. And I'm not talking about the clothing store either. He's a dangerous man with shades of Mussolini and Hitler. He's mentally unstable. He's sick and has no business running for president much less possibly becoming president. He has never read the Constitution of the US. He's a threat to democracy and world peace. I used to wonder how Hitler could have possibly become the leader of Germany in the 1930's. Now I know.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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12-10-2016, 11:15 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 11:12 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 11:10 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Vosur, you are a European and as such should be concerned as to who is more likely to cause worldwide incineration, only a fool would consider Clinton more capable of that than Trump and I know you are no fool what's going on here ?

I'm pretty sure Vosur does not support Trump. He just hates Clinton. And, although she's less likely to start a nuclear war than Trump, she's plenty hawkish.
I get that but rather a hawk Clinton than a doomsday Trump. European support for him is an anathema to me
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12-10-2016, 11:17 AM (This post was last modified: 12-10-2016 11:21 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 11:10 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Vosur, you are a European and as such should be concerned as to who is more likely to cause worldwide incineration, only a fool would consider Clinton more capable of that than Trump and I know you are no fool what's going on here ?
I don't want either of them to be president, but Hillary happens to be the one with a track record of warmongering (which, ultimately, led to the influx of refugees into my home country and all the negative consequences that followed) while holding public office. I'll take an unqualified, incompetent wild card over a qualified and competent known evil any day. I know what kind of foreign policy Clinton is going to follow based on the past, but all we have to go on for Trump are his words which he changes frequently.

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