Trump will be president
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12-10-2016, 11:20 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 11:17 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 11:10 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Vosur, you are a European and as such should be concerned as to who is more likely to cause worldwide incineration, only a fool would consider Clinton more capable of that than Trump and I know you are no fool what's going on here ?
I don't want either of them to be president, but Hillary happens to be the one with a track record of warmongering (which, ultimately, led to the influx of refugees into my home country and all the negative consequences that followed) while holding public office. I'll take an unqualified, incompetent wild card over a qualified and competent known evil any day. I know what kind of foreign policy Clinton is going to follow based on the past, but all we have to go on for Trump are his words which she changes frequently.
Cool I get that
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12-10-2016, 11:22 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 11:02 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 10:46 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Are you suggesting that the Clintons keep their finances completely separate? Married couples usually share their money, so giving money to Bill is effectively the same as giving it to Hillary and vice versa.

My remarks weren't limited to living presidents. I said that Bill Clinton is the only US president in history to do what he did.

You don't see the problem do you? Let's go back further...

FDR died in office, so after being president he didn't make any money giving speeches or writing books.

Eisenhower died in 1969 -- he left office in 1961.

Kennedy died in office

LBJ served out Kennedy's term and won one term on his own. He chose not run for a second term...and he died in 73.

Nixon....well...he was Nixon...

Ford...well...

Carter is still alive and raising millions for habitat..

Do you not understand context Vos?

You can't make a comparison to what LBJ might have gotten for a speech in 1970, to what Bill Clinton can make today.

Also, "First Ladies" financial earnings aren't usually an issue. I don't recall anyone making a fuss about what Laura Bush or Michelle Obama made.

Laugh out load

Oh shit I forgot Truman...he was in office from 1945, until 1953 and died in 73.

He received no pension (from being a senator or president), except from the military (just over $100 a month) and made some money selling his memoirs, which were successful but also took out a personal loan to finance them.

He was the first to publish his memoirs...


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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12-10-2016, 11:40 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 11:13 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 11:01 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I don't know that you can legally stop Bill Clinton from making money (by any legal means, including giving speeches) just because his wife is politically active. Should any and all spouses of people in government offices be forbidden to do this? It seems unrealistic to me, and I can't say I have a problem with it.
I think they should be, but make no mistake, I'm aware that it's never going to happen. The very people who would vote on such legislation stand to gain the most from its rejection, after all.

(12-10-2016 11:01 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  All recent US presidents have been filthy rich (at least by my standards) even before they took office. It's nearly impossible to run for president unless you're rich. So that in itself is not a reason to hate them. The Clintons have plenty of other unpleasant baggage (and I will vote for her anyway, for reasons that I have detailed several times on this forum). I don't really care how rich they are.
And that is one of the big problems with American democracy. All of your recent presidents have furthered the agenda of special interests much more than the agenda of the people because it's almost an unwritten requirement to be a crook if you want to be president. Bernie Sanders would have been the exception, but look what happened to him. His own party conspired to sabotage his run for president in favor of Hillary Clinton from the very beginning.

(12-10-2016 11:02 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  You don't see the problem do you? Let's go back further...

FDR died in office, so after being president he didn't make any money giving speeches or writing books.

Eisenhower died in 1969 -- he left office in 1961.

Kennedy died in office

LBJ served out Kennedy's term and won one term on his own. He chose not run for a second term...and he died in 73.

Nixon....well...he was Nixon...

Ford...well...

Carter is still alive and raising millions for habitat..

Do you not understand context Vos?

You can't make a comparison to what LBJ might have gotten for a speech in 1970, to what Bill Clinton can make today.

Also, "First Ladies" financial earnings aren't usually an issue. I don't recall anyone making a fuss about what Laura Bush or Michelle Obama made.

Laugh out load
Yeah, what about Nixon? What about Ford? What about Carter? The fact that Carter is raising millions for habitats doesn't prevent him from making millions off of speeches. You can't just hand wave them away by saying "well."

(12-10-2016 11:06 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Bullshit, he makes contributions to businesses and politicians he favors. His money can certainly buy influence for others.

Just like his father's money influenced him.
In the same vein, you can contribute to businesses and politicians you favor with your money. Again, even if I grant you that his behavior corrupt as well (which I don't really have a problem with), that doesn't make the corruption of other public officials (the Clintons, in this case) any more acceptable.

Since you don't seem to have studied American history beyond the usual surface headlines, in 1880's Ulysses S. Grant, who was the 18th president of the US, was destitute after he left office. There was no pension for ex-presidents at the time. Grant had to sell his Civil War mementos to live on. He and his wife were given money by friends so they could survive. He finally wrote a book while he was dying of throat cancer and made $450,000 dollars from the royalties. There were some people who thought he was selling his soul for money and were disgusted by the book. Even so, it sold well.

Congress finally passed a bill giving former presidents a pension to live on. The spectacle of a former president on the streets begging for money was something Americans felt was was an international embarrassment. Abraham Lincoln's wife, Mary Todd Lincoln, took to selling her dresses and personal items to live on.

Of course we live in different times but this is the history of how former presidents, former writers* and ex government officials made money after retirement.

*Charles Dickens and Mark Twain both went on speaking tours across the US to make money in their retirement years as both were in serious need of funds. Today they would be making millions.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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12-10-2016, 11:52 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 11:11 AM)kim Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 10:46 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  ---
---
... Bill might be first gentleman.

Ok, I do giggle at that.....

I'm going with consort. "Madame President and consort." - it has a nice ring to it. Might help keep him in his place. Wink

He'd be the First Laddie

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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12-10-2016, 11:58 AM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 11:40 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 11:13 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I think they should be, but make no mistake, I'm aware that it's never going to happen. The very people who would vote on such legislation stand to gain the most from its rejection, after all.

And that is one of the big problems with American democracy. All of your recent presidents have furthered the agenda of special interests much more than the agenda of the people because it's almost an unwritten requirement to be a crook if you want to be president. Bernie Sanders would have been the exception, but look what happened to him. His own party conspired to sabotage his run for president in favor of Hillary Clinton from the very beginning.

Yeah, what about Nixon? What about Ford? What about Carter? The fact that Carter is raising millions for habitats doesn't prevent him from making millions off of speeches. You can't just hand wave them away by saying "well."

In the same vein, you can contribute to businesses and politicians you favor with your money. Again, even if I grant you that his behavior corrupt as well (which I don't really have a problem with), that doesn't make the corruption of other public officials (the Clintons, in this case) any more acceptable.

Since you don't seem to have studied American history beyond the usual surface headlines, in 1880's Ulysses S. Grant, who was the 18th president of the US, was destitute after he left office. There was no pension for ex-presidents at the time. Grant had to sell his Civil War mementos to live on. He and his wife were given money by friends so they could survive. He finally wrote a book while he was dying of throat cancer and made $450,000 dollars from the royalties. There were some people who thought he was selling his soul for money and were disgusted by the book. Even so, it sold well.

Congress finally passed a bill giving former presidents a pension to live on. The spectacle of a former president on the streets begging for money was something Americans felt was was an international embarrassment. Abraham Lincoln's wife, Mary Todd Lincoln, took to selling her dresses and personal items to live on.

Of course we live in different times but this is the history of how former presidents, former writers* and ex government officials made money after retirement.

*Charles Dickens and Mark Twain both went on speaking tours across the US to make money in their retirement years as both were in serious need of funds. Today they would be making millions.
There have been plenty of presidents since 1958; none of them felt the need to enrich themselves by 50, 100, let alone 130 million dollars by giving speeches to special interest groups after they left public office. Why do you think that is?

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12-10-2016, 12:04 PM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 11:13 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 11:02 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  You don't see the problem do you? Let's go back further...

FDR died in office, so after being president he didn't make any money giving speeches or writing books.

Eisenhower died in 1969 -- he left office in 1961.

Kennedy died in office

LBJ served out Kennedy's term and won one term on his own. He chose not run for a second term...and he died in 73.

Nixon....well...he was Nixon...

Ford...well...

Carter is still alive and raising millions for habitat..

Do you not understand context Vos?

You can't make a comparison to what LBJ might have gotten for a speech in 1970, to what Bill Clinton can make today.

Also, "First Ladies" financial earnings aren't usually an issue. I don't recall anyone making a fuss about what Laura Bush or Michelle Obama made.

Laugh out load
Yeah, what about Nixon? What about Ford? What about Carter? The fact that Carter is raising millions for habitats doesn't prevent him from making millions off of speeches. You can't just hand wave them away by saying "well."

(12-10-2016 11:06 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Bullshit, he makes contributions to businesses and politicians he favors. His money can certainly buy influence for others.

Just like his father's money influenced him.
In the same vein, you can contribute to businesses and politicians you favor with your money. Again, even if I grant you that his behavior corrupt as well (which I don't really have a problem with), that doesn't make the corruption of other public officials (the Clintons, in this case) any more acceptable.

Carter is arguably the most successful former president. He has given his own personal time and money building houses for underprivileged people.

How much would you offer Nixon to speak after he shamefully resigned from office? He did make $600k but in the years following watergate had a hard time finding a place to live and few in Washington would even speak to him. In 1978 he published his memoirs. Late 70s he was invited to the WhiteHouse and traveled speaking to foreign countries which he excelled at. in the late 80s his health began to decline and he died in 1994.

He did campaign for Reagan, but only in places that he would be accepted in during mostly the primary -- not so much during the national election, also his memoirs did help to rehab him in the eyes of his fellow republicans.

Ford was tainted by Nixon because he pardoned him. Also Ford rather shunned the spotlight after leaving office, but did things he felt were required (like some state dinners and funerals).

But his wife was Betty Ford. Yanno, the Betty Ford clinic.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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12-10-2016, 12:04 PM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 11:40 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Since you don't seem to have studied American history beyond the usual surface headlines, in 1880's Ulysses S. Grant, who was the 18th president of the US, was destitute after he left office. There was no pension for ex-presidents at the time. Grant had to sell his Civil War mementos to live on. He and his wife were given money by friends so they could survive. He finally wrote a book while he was dying of throat cancer and made $450,000 dollars from the royalties.

$450,000 in 1880 corresponds to $11,149,275.34 in 2015 dollars from inflation alone.

#sigh
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12-10-2016, 12:06 PM (This post was last modified: 12-10-2016 12:27 PM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 11:58 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 11:40 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Since you don't seem to have studied American history beyond the usual surface headlines, in 1880's Ulysses S. Grant, who was the 18th president of the US, was destitute after he left office. There was no pension for ex-presidents at the time. Grant had to sell his Civil War mementos to live on. He and his wife were given money by friends so they could survive. He finally wrote a book while he was dying of throat cancer and made $450,000 dollars from the royalties. There were some people who thought he was selling his soul for money and were disgusted by the book. Even so, it sold well.

Congress finally passed a bill giving former presidents a pension to live on. The spectacle of a former president on the streets begging for money was something Americans felt was was an international embarrassment. Abraham Lincoln's wife, Mary Todd Lincoln, took to selling her dresses and personal items to live on.

Of course we live in different times but this is the history of how former presidents, former writers* and ex government officials made money after retirement.

*Charles Dickens and Mark Twain both went on speaking tours across the US to make money in their retirement years as both were in serious need of funds. Today they would be making millions.
There have been plenty of presidents since 1958; none of them felt the need to enrich themselves by 50, 100, let alone 130 million dollars by giving speeches to special interest groups after they left public office. Why do you think that is?

Many?

Ike died in 1969.
Kennedy died in 1963
LBJ died in 73
Nixon died in 94.
Ford died in 2006 -- but was again tainted.
Carter
Reagan -- Alzheimer's before leaving office
HW Bush one term has health issues now
Bill Clinton 53 when he left office in 2000



You can't compare the economics of the 1960s to today.

Many died a decade after leaving office!!!

The only us presdient who would have left office young enough to make serious money after his presidency would have been Kennedy -- had he not died in 63.

Had he not been assisinated he might have been 47-51 before leaving office. Young enough to make plenty of money.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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12-10-2016, 12:17 PM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 11:58 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 11:40 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Since you don't seem to have studied American history beyond the usual surface headlines, in 1880's Ulysses S. Grant, who was the 18th president of the US, was destitute after he left office. There was no pension for ex-presidents at the time. Grant had to sell his Civil War mementos to live on. He and his wife were given money by friends so they could survive. He finally wrote a book while he was dying of throat cancer and made $450,000 dollars from the royalties. There were some people who thought he was selling his soul for money and were disgusted by the book. Even so, it sold well.

Congress finally passed a bill giving former presidents a pension to live on. The spectacle of a former president on the streets begging for money was something Americans felt was was an international embarrassment. Abraham Lincoln's wife, Mary Todd Lincoln, took to selling her dresses and personal items to live on.

Of course we live in different times but this is the history of how former presidents, former writers* and ex government officials made money after retirement.

*Charles Dickens and Mark Twain both went on speaking tours across the US to make money in their retirement years as both were in serious need of funds. Today they would be making millions.
There have been plenty of presidents since 1958; none of them felt the need to enrich themselves by 50, 100, let alone 130 million dollars by giving speeches to special interest groups after they left public office. Why do you think that is?
Felt the need? They were unable to get the gigs man. It's that simple.
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12-10-2016, 12:52 PM
RE: Trump will be president
(12-10-2016 12:17 PM)skyking Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 11:58 AM)Vosur Wrote:  There have been plenty of presidents since 1958; none of them felt the need to enrich themselves by 50, 100, let alone 130 million dollars by giving speeches to special interest groups after they left public office. Why do you think that is?
Felt the need? They were unable to get the gigs man. It's that simple.

Yes, absolutely. Every one of them would have gladly taken 130 million had it been offered.
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