Trump will be president
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26-10-2016, 02:26 PM
RE: Trump will be president
(26-10-2016 02:02 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  My point was, things like bearing arms, free speech, freedom of religion etc are actually in the constitution. You won't find the words abortion or gay marriage. [...]

Ah yes... the good ol' US Constitution.

Refer to District of Columbia v. Heller (07-290) 2008. (The plaintiff in Heller unsuccessfully challenged the constitutionality of the Washington D.C. handgun ban.)

Recent US case law since Heller suggests that courts are willing to, for example, uphold regulations:

Which ban weapons on government property. US v Dorosan, 350 Fed. Appx. 874 (2009) (upholding defendant’s conviction for bringing a handgun onto post office property);

Which ban the illegal possession of a handgun as a juvenile, convicted felon. US v Rene, 583 F.3d 8 (2009) (holding that the Juvenile Delinquency Act ban of juvenile possession of handguns did not violate the Second Amendment);

Which require a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Kachalsky v County of Westchester, 701 F.3d 81 (2012) (holding that a New York law preventing individuals from obtaining a license to possess a concealed firearm in public for general purposes unless the individual showed proper cause did not violate the Second Amendment.)

—BTW, retired associate justice of the US Supreme Court from 1975 to 2010, John Paul Stevens says that five words could solve the Second Amendment issue as per:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms when serving in the Militia shall not be infringed."

(Although that needs a thread of its own I guess.)

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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26-10-2016, 02:30 PM
RE: Trump will be president
(26-10-2016 02:02 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(26-10-2016 01:51 PM)adey67 Wrote:  What's the problem with gay marriage so long as no one is forcing you to marry a bloke ? What gives you the right to organise someone else's sex life ? Bet you cant answer that one can you bitch ? Lol

Absolutely nothing. My brother in law is gay and he's one of my best friends.

My point was, things like bearing arms, free speech, freedom of religion etc are actually in the constitution. You won't find the words abortion or gay marriage. Using an existing amendment to justify those things with the supreme court "interpretation" is the incorrect method.

You see, we didn't pussy out when it came to slavery or womens voting. Slavery was wrong. Women not getting to vote was wrong. So they did it the right way. Amendment. They could have simply used the supreme court to say "slavery is wrong because all men are free based on amendment xyz." No, they fixed it the right way. They'll do the same with guns. Instead of mustering the required votes to change the 2nd amendment, or remove it, they'll use activist judges to interpret it their way. Slowly chip away at it.

Thankyou for clarifying your meaning I think I kind of get it although it does seem to be splitting hairs somewhat
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26-10-2016, 02:31 PM
RE: Trump will be president
(26-10-2016 02:01 PM)yakherder Wrote:  
(26-10-2016 01:38 PM)adey67 Wrote:  Well its a sort of prostitute English

Both British English and American English are hybrid mutts of real English, which is closer to Icelandic or Finnish and would not be easily understood by British or Americans Big Grin

Touche Big Grin
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26-10-2016, 02:35 PM
RE: Trump will be president
(26-10-2016 02:26 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(26-10-2016 02:02 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  My point was, things like bearing arms, free speech, freedom of religion etc are actually in the constitution. You won't find the words abortion or gay marriage. [...]

Ah yes... the good ol' US Constitution.

Refer to District of Columbia v. Heller (07-290) 2008. (The plaintiff in Heller unsuccessfully challenged the constitutionality of the Washington D.C. handgun ban.)

Recent US case law since Heller suggests that courts are willing to, for example, uphold regulations:

Which ban weapons on government property. US v Dorosan, 350 Fed. Appx. 874 (2009) (upholding defendant’s conviction for bringing a handgun onto post office property);

Which ban the illegal possession of a handgun as a juvenile, convicted felon. US v Rene, 583 F.3d 8 (2009) (holding that the Juvenile Delinquency Act ban of juvenile possession of handguns did not violate the Second Amendment);

Which require a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Kachalsky v County of Westchester, 701 F.3d 81 (2012) (holding that a New York law preventing individuals from obtaining a license to possess a concealed firearm in public for general purposes unless the individual showed proper cause did not violate the Second Amendment.)

—BTW, retired associate justice of the US Supreme Court from 1975 to 2010, John Paul Stevens says that five words could solve the Second Amendment issue as per:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms when serving in the Militia shall not be infringed."

(Although that needs a thread of its own I guess.)

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." George Mason 1788

Americans are the militia. We do not have to be organized. Or have a monthly meeting.

But we have the right to own firearms to defend against tyranny. If our government fails to follow the constitution, or begins to interpret it incorrectly to implement their agenda, we have the right to kick their ass.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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26-10-2016, 02:39 PM
RE: Trump will be president
(26-10-2016 01:45 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  In the eyes of republicans, democrats are traitors. Sanctuary cities, gun bans, using constitutional amendments to justify things like abortion and gay marriage. The founders would not approve. A new constitutional amendment is one thing, but using an existing amendment for things it was never intended for is wrong.
Hey LDH

I'm not an American so I am not at all "angry" at you or your position.

You're post above was about your perception of "most" republicans, I want to understand a bit more about you though. Can you please answer the following (if you want to)

1. Do YOU think it is important to preserve the ideals and positions of the founders?
2. Do YOU consider that the governance over America now ought to be updated for the ideals, wants and needs of the current set of Americans?
3. Are YOU worried about a change in American culture?
4. Do YOU see immigration as a threat to the current American culture?
5. Are YOU for or against women choosing to have abortions?
6. Are YOU for or against government recognising same gender marriages?
7. Is YOUR freedom, regarding gun ownership a top priority for you? Perhaps more so than taxes, healthcare, budget deficits etc
8. Do YOU think any more restrictions on gun ownership/possession is a slippery slope towards taking away your guns (for the purpose of personal protection)?

If you are perceiving that your answers will further fuel a flame here, I'd be happy for you to PM me the answers (if you want to). I'm just interested to understand better, I presume your answers are probably not too different to others around you but are probably "repulsive" to many people on this forum. It seems you are more aligned with Christian Americans (from the American South).
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26-10-2016, 02:43 PM
RE: Trump will be president
(26-10-2016 02:02 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  My point was, things like bearing arms, free speech, freedom of religion etc are actually in the constitution.

There is no mention of religion in the Constitution. The only freedom of speech mentioned is that Senators and Representative can't be busted for what they say in session (unless it's treason). And the only mention of arms or the milita is that Congress is responsible for organizing and training it and POTUS is commander-in-chief. So obviously the founders wanted nothing to do with the right to bear arms or free speech or freedom of religion.

#sigh
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26-10-2016, 02:46 PM
RE: Trump will be president
(26-10-2016 02:43 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(26-10-2016 02:02 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  My point was, things like bearing arms, free speech, freedom of religion etc are actually in the constitution.

There is no mention of religion in the Constitution. The only freedom of speech mentioned is that Senators and Representative can't be busted for what they say in session (unless it's treason). And the only mention of arms or the milita is that Congress is responsible for organizing and training it and POTUS is commander-in-chief. So obviously the founders wanted nothing to do with the right to bear arms or free speech or freedom of religion.

I suggest you read the Bill of rights. Which is part of the constitution.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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26-10-2016, 02:46 PM
RE: Trump will be president
What are sanctuary cities?

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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26-10-2016, 02:50 PM
RE: Trump will be president
(26-10-2016 02:26 PM)SYZ Wrote:  "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms when serving in the Militia shall not be infringed."

It's been a while since I've read the Constitution, but I'm pretty sure the bolded words are not in there -- you are putting them there. People have been arguing about the interpretation of this amendment from the beginning, but I don't think it's as cut and dried as you are painting it. The consensus seems to be that you are allowed to own a gun without being part of any organized militia. Back then, much of the population subsisted by hunting or had farms in areas where there were still dangerous predators. Everybody had guns, and there's no way they would have limited it to "militia only".

Disclaimer: I don't own a gun and have no desire to. But I don't want to ban them either. People who do want to ban them would have to repeal or change the second amendment. Good luck with that.
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26-10-2016, 02:52 PM
RE: Trump will be president
(26-10-2016 02:35 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  But we have the right to own firearms to defend against tyranny. If our government fails to follow the constitution, or begins to interpret it incorrectly to implement their agenda, we have the right to kick their ass.

And you're the idiot who will decide that they're failing to follow the constitution? Rolleyes

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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