Truth statements
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06-02-2015, 09:08 AM
Truth statements
I suppose this comes under the heading of epistemology.

I realized long ago that anytime someone makes a truth claim, such as "A" is true, what they are actually saying is "I believe that 'A' is true". Then, it is a very legitimate follow up question to ask, "Why do you believe 'A' is true?"

Then, the person will be required to present supporting evidence of why they believe "A" is true. We can then consider the value of the evidence in order to see if it is convincing--if it logically supports the claim that "A" is true.

If someone responds, "'A' is true because I want it to be true", except in a few special cases, this can be seen to be very flimsy evidence--believing something is true because you want it to be true is the main ingredient in the recipe for ignorance.

Theists have never presented any valid evidence that supports their assertion that "God exists", because there is no valid evidence that supports that belief.

However, when God is defined as "a force that sometimes intervenes in natural processes", the burden is on the person making the claim to present evidence that such a force exists--which has never been done--because, in all likelihood, such a force does not exist.

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.--Voltaire.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." --Thomas Paine.
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06-02-2015, 09:26 AM
RE: Truth statements
"You're very sure of your facts," he said at last. "I couldn't trust the thinking of a man who takes the Universe-if there is one- for granted" ---- "I only decide about my Universe," continued the man quietly. "My Universe is my eyes and my ears. Anything else is hearsay". --

The Man who Rules the Universe - from The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe by Douglas Adams

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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06-02-2015, 09:46 AM
RE: Truth statements
(06-02-2015 09:08 AM)666wannabe Wrote:  I suppose this comes under the heading of epistemology.

I realized long ago that anytime someone makes a truth claim, such as "A" is true, what they are actually saying is "I believe that 'A' is true". Then, it is a very legitimate follow up question to ask, "Why do you believe 'A' is true?"

Then, the person will be required to present supporting evidence of why they believe "A" is true. We can then consider the value of the evidence in order to see if it is convincing--if it logically supports the claim that "A" is true.

If someone responds, "'A' is true because I want it to be true", except in a few special cases, this can be seen to be very flimsy evidence--believing something is true because you want it to be true is the main ingredient in the recipe for ignorance.

Theists have never presented any valid evidence that supports their assertion that "God exists", because there is no valid evidence that supports that belief.

However, when God is defined as "a force that sometimes intervenes in natural processes", the burden is on the person making the claim to present evidence that such a force exists--which has never been done--because, in all likelihood, such a force does not exist.

The problem is many people operate under the following mantra;

“I'd far rather be happy than right any day.”
― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy

Without stopping to think...

“The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”
― Douglas Adams, The Salmon of Doubt: Hitchhiking the Galaxy One Last Time


(Today onlinebiker and I are dueling with Douglas Adams quotes.) Smile

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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06-02-2015, 10:15 AM
RE: Truth statements
(06-02-2015 09:08 AM)666wannabe Wrote:  ... defined as "a force that sometimes intervenes in natural processes" ...

I'm not sure it'd even be possible to determine whether a phenomenon was the result of "unnatural" intervention. There's no criteria one could apply to anything observed that would force a conclusion that it was supernatural. I'd even argue that anything observed is natural just by the sheer fact that it was observed (even when misperceived). Any "god" "caught in the act" would be by definition just another force of nature, since anything that "manipulates" nature can only be natural.

Miracles are only miracles in the eyes of the beholder.
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06-02-2015, 07:40 PM
RE: Truth statements
(06-02-2015 10:15 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  
(06-02-2015 09:08 AM)666wannabe Wrote:  ... defined as "a force that sometimes intervenes in natural processes" ...

I'm not sure it'd even be possible to determine whether a phenomenon was the result of "unnatural" intervention. There's no criteria one could apply to anything observed that would force a conclusion that it was supernatural. I'd even argue that anything observed is natural just by the sheer fact that it was observed (even when misperceived). Any "god" "caught in the act" would be by definition just another force of nature, since anything that "manipulates" nature can only be natural.

Miracles are only miracles in the eyes of the beholder.

What I meant by "natural processes" are those that have been validated by science, largely through exhaustive demonstration that those processes which are reproducible (particular effects are the result of particular causes) can be defined as "natural" processes.

Throughout history, science has shown that processes which were, at the time, assumed to be "supernatural", with further investigation and research, natural.

Science continues to demonstrate this (the narrowing of the gaps).

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.--Voltaire.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." --Thomas Paine.
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02-03-2015, 03:11 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2015 03:18 PM by rezider.)
RE: Truth statements
(06-02-2015 09:26 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  "You're very sure of your facts," he said at last. "I couldn't trust the thinking of a man who takes the Universe-if there is one- for granted" ---- "I only decide about my Universe," continued the man quietly. "My Universe is my eyes and my ears. Anything else is hearsay". --

The Man who Rules the Universe - from The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe by Douglas Adams

I instantly stopped at this reply. Brilliant quote!

"Esse est percipi" - George Berkeley ("To be is to be perceived.")

The world is that which I perceive.
There's intuition as a philosophical method. But I believe that it rather helps us with finding empirical evidence - 'trusting your gut', - so it cannot be taken as evidence in itself.

Some people try to justify their belief by saying that believing in God gives them a sense of hope and the lack of belief means lack of hope. I really like how Richard Dawkins addressed that: "The universe does not owe you a sense of hope."

Just because the belief in God gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling doesn't mean He has any substance.

"I don't know where I'm going, but I'm on my way." - Carl Sagan
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