Truth
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17-04-2017, 09:44 AM
RE: Truth
(17-04-2017 04:21 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Is truth the highest concept there is? Whatever that means.

"Don't put yer eggs all in one basket"
------------------- Easter Bunny

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-04-2017, 11:34 AM
RE: Truth
(17-04-2017 09:03 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(17-04-2017 08:34 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  No. for instance the concept "justice" is a higher level concept than truth. Justice presupposes the concept of truth. Knowledge presupposes the concept truth.
But without knowing the truth we sometimes cannot administer fair justice and how do you know the knowledge you have is true?

Yes you've just demonstrated that justice is a higher concept than truth since we must know truth before we can do justice. You've answered your own question. Now as to how we know what is true, we know it by means of reason. Reason is the how of knowing. Reality is the what. So when our ideas correspond to reality, they are true. Reality is the standard of the truth and reason is the means by which we identify it.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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17-04-2017, 12:52 PM
RE: Truth
(17-04-2017 09:33 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-04-2017 09:21 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  How so? If your sentence is false then the truth of it is known. If your sentence is meaningless then it's meaningless.

Liar paradox - If "this sentence is false" is true, then the sentence is false, but if the sentence states that it is false, and it is false, then it must be true, and so on.
Ah, right. I understand. Still though, if you did know the truth of it...

That said, perhaps in some instances the truth is simply unknowable.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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17-04-2017, 03:30 PM
RE: Truth
As you rightly point out SeaJay, "in some instances the truth is simply unknowable" and one must be content with this. I don't know anything about conceptual hierarchies but, I see harmony to be a relative concept.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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17-04-2017, 03:36 PM
RE: Truth
I'm a big fan of truth, but I view it as an extremely useful tool rather than an end in itself. Over the years I've come to value awareness, focus and engagement more because that's where I see life actually being lived.

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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17-04-2017, 03:59 PM
RE: Truth
(17-04-2017 03:36 PM)Astreja Wrote:  I'm a big fan of truth, but I view it as an extremely useful tool rather than an end in itself. Over the years I've come to value awareness, focus and engagement more because that's where I see life actually being lived.

Ain't that the truth.

#sigh
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17-04-2017, 05:51 PM
RE: Truth
Nearly 10 minutes of crap is a TL;DR for me. Tongue

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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17-04-2017, 08:47 PM
RE: Truth
(17-04-2017 03:36 PM)Astreja Wrote:  I'm a big fan of truth, but I view it as an extremely useful tool rather than an end in itself. Over the years I've come to value awareness, focus and engagement more because that's where I see life actually being lived.

Absolutely.

Whatever you're trying to do, the closer your internal models are to reality, the better equipped you are to do it. It helps the outcome match your intent.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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17-04-2017, 10:35 PM
RE: Truth
(17-04-2017 05:51 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Nearly 10 minutes of crap is a TL;DR for me. Tongue

Which explains why there are so many world-renowned Aussie philosophers.

(all called Bruce).

Angel




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18-04-2017, 01:47 AM
RE: Truth
Truth is only a discussion for philosophers and salesmen. Tongue

living word
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