Try to understand me!
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28-02-2014, 02:15 AM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2014 02:19 AM by donotwant.)
Try to understand me!
Do you ever run into people who say something and if you disagree with them they go into "TRY TO UNDERSTAND ME!" mode?
And when you say that you understand they say you don't because if you would then you would agree with them.
"You don't see what I see!" "You're getting it the wrong way!" "You are too materialistic to see the truth!"
And they go "TRY TO UNDERSTAND ME" 100 times until you go away?

It is especially popular among new age freaks who believe in stuff which consists of cool words which are not connected. They also tend to use quantum, energy, consciousness a lot.
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28-02-2014, 02:25 AM
RE: Try to understand me!
Yeah, the best way I have to deal with those types is play along a bit, when they see that you can "reason" like them, they trust you're not closed minded, and then they lower their defences and you strike them with pure and blunt logic. Works every time

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28-02-2014, 02:29 AM
RE: Try to understand me!
(28-02-2014 02:25 AM)nach_in Wrote:  Yeah, the best way I have to deal with those types is play along a bit, when they see that you can "reason" like them, they trust you're not closed minded, and then they lower their defences and you strike them with pure and blunt logic. Works every time

Yeah but to do that I must say I accept insanity which I am unable to do.
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28-02-2014, 02:34 AM
RE: Try to understand me!
(28-02-2014 02:29 AM)donotwant Wrote:  
(28-02-2014 02:25 AM)nach_in Wrote:  Yeah, the best way I have to deal with those types is play along a bit, when they see that you can "reason" like them, they trust you're not closed minded, and then they lower their defences and you strike them with pure and blunt logic. Works every time

Yeah but to do that I must say I accept insanity which I am unable to do.

Then you have problems other than deluded people. If you can't muster some tolerance to have a productive conversation then you're just being antagonistic to these people, and that's kind of being a dick.

No matter how insane their views are, as long ad they aren't actively and directly harming someone, then we must respect and tolerate them for the time being. Being rigid just for the sake of rigidity won't help anyone

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28-02-2014, 02:37 AM
RE: Try to understand me!
(28-02-2014 02:34 AM)nach_in Wrote:  
(28-02-2014 02:29 AM)donotwant Wrote:  Yeah but to do that I must say I accept insanity which I am unable to do.

Then you have problems other than deluded people. If you can't muster some tolerance to have a productive conversation then you're just being antagonistic to these people, and that's kind of being a dick.

No matter how insane their views are, as long ad they aren't actively and directly harming someone, then we must respect and tolerate them for the time being. Being rigid just for the sake of rigidity won't help anyone

No I mean if they say something which I don't find true or I don't agree with I can't say that it is true or I agree with it. It would be a lie wouldn't it?
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28-02-2014, 02:43 AM
RE: Try to understand me!
(28-02-2014 02:37 AM)donotwant Wrote:  
(28-02-2014 02:34 AM)nach_in Wrote:  Then you have problems other than deluded people. If you can't muster some tolerance to have a productive conversation then you're just being antagonistic to these people, and that's kind of being a dick.

No matter how insane their views are, as long ad they aren't actively and directly harming someone, then we must respect and tolerate them for the time being. Being rigid just for the sake of rigidity won't help anyone

No I mean if they say something which I don't find true or I don't agree with I can't say that it is true or I agree with it. It would be a lie wouldn't it?

They aren't asking you to agree with them, just to understand them. You can just follow the reasoning collecting argument against it along the way, and when you get to present a rebuttal then just throw all of it out there. By that point they won't be able to tell you you don't understand them.

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28-02-2014, 08:22 AM
RE: Try to understand me!
(28-02-2014 02:15 AM)donotwant Wrote:  Do you ever run into people who say something and if you disagree with them they go into "TRY TO UNDERSTAND ME!" mode?
And when you say that you understand they say you don't because if you would then you would agree with them.
"You don't see what I see!" "You're getting it the wrong way!" "You are too materialistic to see the truth!"
And they go "TRY TO UNDERSTAND ME" 100 times until you go away?

It is especially popular among new age freaks who believe in stuff which consists of cool words which are not connected. They also tend to use quantum, energy, consciousness a lot.

Yeah, it's common when they can't articulate their beliefs and/or they've been proven wrong. I've had people who use drugs say similar thing, that if you don't get high they way they did, you won't be able to make sense of things the way they did... which is probably true.


(28-02-2014 02:25 AM)nach_in Wrote:  Yeah, the best way I have to deal with those types is play along a bit, when they see that you can "reason" like them, they trust you're not closed minded, and then they lower their defences and you strike them with pure and blunt logic. Works every time

So, concern-troll 'em?
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28-02-2014, 08:31 AM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2014 08:37 AM by donotwant.)
RE: Try to understand me!
(28-02-2014 02:43 AM)nach_in Wrote:  
(28-02-2014 02:37 AM)donotwant Wrote:  No I mean if they say something which I don't find true or I don't agree with I can't say that it is true or I agree with it. It would be a lie wouldn't it?

They aren't asking you to agree with them, just to understand them. You can just follow the reasoning collecting argument against it along the way, and when you get to present a rebuttal then just throw all of it out there. By that point they won't be able to tell you you don't understand them.

That's the whole point either they stop and wait for me to agree before they continue. Or they say the whole thing but when my rebuttal is over they say oh no no no you didn't understand it right. And then they say same shit over and over until I agree with em which I simply can't do because they say bullshit.
They simply thing that it is impossible to disagree with em because they are telling the truth. And when I say why they are wrong they say I didn't understand them the right way.
It's very simple they will say I don't understand em unless I agree with them. It's 2 choices.

They also like to shift burden of proof and ask questions like "do you trust yourself?" "how do you know what you know?" then ask for proofs of everything I know which they won't find good enough conclude then that I know nothing and they know more then I do and therefore right. Way to go boy!
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28-02-2014, 09:21 AM
RE: Try to understand me!
Typical egocentric inarticulate individuals. I prefer not to argue with these people.

I don't dislike you, I simply don't care.
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28-02-2014, 09:39 AM
RE: Try to understand me!
(28-02-2014 02:15 AM)donotwant Wrote:  Do you ever run into people who say something and if you disagree with them they go into "TRY TO UNDERSTAND ME!" mode?
And when you say that you understand they say you don't because if you would then you would agree with them.
"You don't see what I see!" "You're getting it the wrong way!" "You are too materialistic to see the truth!"
And they go "TRY TO UNDERSTAND ME" 100 times until you go away?

It is especially popular among new age freaks who believe in stuff which consists of cool words which are not connected. They also tend to use quantum, energy, consciousness a lot.

You should read A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian. His advice is to listen and understand what they are saying and then instead of attacking their beliefs go for their epistemology, their method of knowing. Show them that faith or feelings are unreliable ways to knowledge and don't try to argue with them but instead just try to plant seeds of doubt that will grow and undermine their belief. Keep the conversation on epistemology and don't let them change the subject. His goal is not to convince or win an argument but to create what he calls doxastic openness. After reading the book I call this method starting brush fires of reason. Start enough and the person will possibly talk themselves out of their irrational belief. I think his techniques are brilliant because they are much less confrontational.

Seth did a podcast interview with him about his book recently and you can download it. He also has some good videos on youtube.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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